About ace side count

[Exoter175]

I would title this "Dostoyevsky meets Hunter S. Thompson".

That would be one hell of a SitDramaCom? I would LOVE to see a rendition of The Brothers Karamazov like this with an HST twist lol.

This thread is about ace side counts.

No it isn't, it hasn't been about ace side counts in like 8 pages lol.

[Tarzan]

No it isn't, it hasn't been about ace side counts in like 8 pages lol.

The irresponsibility of not sticking to the topic has most certainly been compensated for in terms of entertainment value!

[Exoter175]

The irresponsibility of not sticking to the topic has most certainly been compensated for in terms of entertainment value!

Something Grumpy Grandpa Don never gets in half these threads, the entertainment value!

[moses]

The irresponsibility of not sticking to the topic has most certainly been compensated for in terms of entertainment value!

I dunno. Babysitting your friend is hardly entertaining. How can you stand to be around that guy everyday?

This so very confusing to me.
What are you trying to state ?
Note: I am not "picking on you."

Could come from the fact you are not very bright. You spend everyday with Tarzan and make profound proclamations that his count is the best on earth. Yet you don't use it.

These never ending threads are a result of T3 and Flash imposing their will on Hi Opt II. EOR will never change. However, constant change proves historical. Create confusion to confound the understanding. You don't need a mentor.

Wong Halves and Perfect Insurance is the best way to keep up with it all.

For a deeper understanding of the game see Moses Column Charts and Explanation.

Top engineers have the ability to understand complex equations. But the best ones can make complex simple again.

[cc12b]

Ha ha. this thread should be titled as "My count is better then yours". With that, I would ask the forum about AO2 and HO2. AO2 tags the 6 as 2 and 9 as -1. If dealer has 6 as up card does he/she more likely to bust compare with the 5 up? Also if you have 10 or 11 and want to DD you would prefer the 9 over A to 8 cards? Why some people label AO2 as "obsolete/antiquate"? I am learning and am not math smart. Thanks

[ZenMaster_Flash]

"Why some people label AO2 as "obsolete/antiquate"?

Obsolescence is the key concept to address here.
HOII is marginally stronger and much easier to employ than AOII.
So ... on two counts, power and ease of use, HOII supplants AOII

[Three]

If you'd take a 9 on 10. Then why not an 8 on 11?

Because you will double against a T (the most common dealer up-card value by a factor of 4) a lot more often with a total of 11 compared to a total of 10. Getting a total of 19 is not comfortable when playing against a T in a high count but against a 9 or less it is comfortable.

If dealer has 6 as up card does he/she more likely to bust compare with the 5 up?

Less likely to bust with a 6 than a 5 in an S17 pitch games. But more likely to bust with a 6 in any H17 game or S17 shoe games.

Also if you have 10 or 11 and want to DD you would prefer the 9 over A to 8 cards?

For a 10 total I like an ace a lot better than getting a 9 as my double card but with an 11 total I like the 9 best.

[cc12b]

Less likely to bust with a 6 than a 5 in an S17 pitch games. But more likely to bust with a 6 in any H17 game or S17 shoe games.

In my area, I do not see any S17 game. In LV I do not know where are 2deckers with s17.

[Exoter175]

Whew! We can finally chuck the other 27 systems out the window.

But wait, there's more. The other side of the internet claims that HOII and AOII are obsolete, and that Zen and Wong Halves are the only way to roll.

Its the never ending pompous parade of irrelevance, comparing one count to another. Is there one mathematically best count? Yes. Should you use it? That answer won't always be yes.

The most important of all of these discussions, is whether or not a count suits the counter, and that he's comfortable with it to the point of precision and being able to (Moses Phrase) Kill with it.

[Exoter175]

I was thinking of a way to phrase it. If i read your other post correctly, you said getting a 9 with a 10 vs 10 is better than getting an 8 with 11 vs 10. Either way still have 19vs10 with Aces in the deck. They can't be in the hole.

I misread your post. But on 11, 28 cards would get me to 18 or less while 23 would get me to 19,20,21. Only 19 guarantees the dealer 19 or 20 without hitting. So yes, i put a value on the 8 for this scenario.

I haven't read much of this thread, but I thought the way he said it was that he was uncomfortable getting a 9 on his 10v10 in high counts

[Exoter175]

That is what i thought i read at first glance. But if so, why is that different than getting 8 on 11 vs 10 in a high count?

I think you're looking at it wrong.

T3 is talking about preferring an Ace on his 10, and a 9 on his 11; simultaneously referencing the discomfort of getting a 9 on his 10 in high counts vs. the dealer 9 or less.

Meaning, he's fairly certain there's a 10 under there, so doubling to 19 vs. 10 is a feeling of discomfort, knowing there's a very likely chance the dealer has a 10 under. Though, should the dealer have an 8 or 9 showing, its likely there's a ten under, or they will draw to a bust, meaning a won hand. Depending on the count being used and how it handles the Ace, its probably very unlikely an ace gets drawn, or that an ace is under the 8 or 9, though its certainly more likely to occur now, than at the beginning of the shoe, its just unlikely due to deck composition.

I think you're curious about CC's response/question, rather than T3's answer to it. Of course, CC was likely referencing an "all encompassing" approach to the 10 and 11 scenario, which are both inherently different. If one had to pick a single card to use there, the 10 would be best, but the 9 would be preferential since it would remain in the deck for a drawn bust, as well as not necessarily being drawn and thus not reducing the count, yet.

Its not always about the total of the hand, that's really an afterthought. To guys like T3 and myself, its actually more about the composition of the hands and their EoR.

I suppose it comes down to how much stock one puts on EOR. For many years, before Norm, i didnt know there was such a term. I just played and put the cards into column. It's like a golfer. He used to be good. But now he is good and confused.

EoR is everything in this game, I find myself curiously calculating EoR as I go, and though I'm certainly not accurate, I"m definitely close.

[ZenMaster_Flash]

" ... why the drastic difference of opinion on PE?"

If this was years ago you could easily spread 15 to 1

(or considerably more) in perfectly fine S17 6 deckers

and then P.E. would certainly take a back seat to B.C.

However, in the 21st century, casino paranoia as to

the predations of Cards Counters, severely restricts our

bet spreads, and that radically raises the importance of P.E.

What has always been clear is that the importance of P.E.

(relative to B.C.) is inversely proportional to the number of

decks in play. Extrapolating to the extremes, [ONE to EIGHT decks],

we are, in effect, playing a different game as far as our betting and

playing focuses are concerned.

[Exoter175]

If this was years ago you could easily spread 15 to 1

(or considerably more) in perfectly fine S17 6 deckers

and then P.E. would certainly take a back seat to B.C.

However, in the 21st century, casino paranoia as to

the predations of Cards Counters, severely restricts our

bet spreads, and that radically raises the importance of P.E.

What has always been clear is that the importance of P.E.

(relative to B.C.) is inversely proportional to the number of

decks in play. Extrapolating to the extremes, [ONE to EIGHT decks],

we are, in effect, playing a different game as far as our betting and

playing focuses are concerned.

I'm not quite sure where you play, but 15 to 1 is very much still a thing, albeit on the upper echelon of tolerable when you get to the green chip level. I play several places at a 25 to 1 ($10-250), and one place at 35 to 1 ($10-$350) because they simply do not care. An hour down the road, however, and anything over 10 to 1 is blacklisted. These are, however, not S17 6 deckers.