Counting system change or add side counting?

[Three]

Something to consider. The gain from adding a side count to any count is proportional to the playing strength of the count it is added to. So, while side counting will improve any count some, it is best to start with a really strong playing count if you are going to go to the effort of adding side count(s) for playing decisions. Of course most strong playing counts are ace neutral so you already are side counting aces. The ace compromise counts, that count the ace as half the T, have a better PE than fully ace reckoned counts but not as good as ace neutral counts. I know people that keep multiple side counts easily enough, but most find one side count enough. For the latter an ace compromise count is a good fit for adding a side count for playing more accurately.

[ZeeBabar]

Something to consider. The gain from adding a side count to any count is proportional to the playing strength of the count it is added to. So, while side counting will improve any count some, it is best to start with a really strong playing count if you are going to go to the effort of adding side count(s) for playing decisions. Of course most strong playing counts are ace neutral so you already are side counting aces. The ace compromise counts, that count the ace as half the T, have a better PE than fully ace reckoned counts but not as good as ace neutral counts. I know people that keep multiple side counts easily enough, but most find one side count enough. For the latter an ace compromise count is a good fit for adding a side count for playing more accurately.

I know one of two long term pros who will be groaning at the not so shuttle promotion of higher level counts.

[Three]

I know one of two long term pros who will be groaning at the not so shuttle promotion of higher level counts.

If they really know their shit they know two things. I used totally neutral language so far as any count that promoted no multi-level count. I was the one that pointed out he was comfortable using RPC when the simple camp started saying he should use Hilo for pitch games. LoL

Everything I said is 100% accurate. Don't think your ploppy thought process in any way resembles what pros know. The fact is the higher the PE of the count you are adding a side count to for playing decisions the more the gain from adding the side count. This is very loosely dependent on what level count you use. It is highly related to how you weight the ace in the main count. I pointed that out. Just look at Norm's count comparison charts:

https://qfit.com/book/ModernBlackjackPage172.htm

The PE leaders are the ace neutral counts. They are closely followed by the ace compromise counts. All the fully ace reckoned counts have anemic PEs. Notice that the level of the count has no influence on PE. Felt, a level 2 fully ace reckoned count an anemic PE of .55. RPC, the count the OP uses and a fully ace reckoned count, an anemic PE of .55. Revere APC, a level 4 fully ace reckoned count, has an anemic PE of .53. Uston SS, a fully ace reckoned level 3 count, has an anemic PE of .54. Halves is the leader for multilevel fully ace reckoned counts. It is a level 3 fully ace reckoned count but still has an anemic PE of .56. The ace compromise counts are Mentor, Unbalanced Zen 2, and Zen with decent PEs of .62, .62 and .63 respectively. The ace neutral counts start at a PE of .59 for a level 1 count and go up to PE .69.

In case you didn't notice, this thread is about going to a more effective count for pitch games or adding a side count. If you are so insecure about the strength of your count that you can't try to help the OP then don't even open the thread. I suggested no count or anything else anywhere in this thread. I simply added what is very important for him to consider before making any changes concerning adding a side count. It was only in this post that I started to go count specific, and you are the one that triggered that because of your ignorance concerning the finer points of BJ. Once again I regret bypassing the ignore post when reading your post. I only did that because this is one of the more interesting threads to be started lately. You are batting almost 1.000 on that one. Your post are really totally worthless and often damaging to new players. The pros all tell you that you are wrong when you post, just like clockwork.

[Freightman]

If they really know their shit they know two things. I used totally neutral language so far as any count that promoted no multi-level count. I was the one that pointed out he was comfortable using RPC when the simple camp started saying he should use Hilo for pitch games. LoL

Everything I said is 100% accurate. Don't think your ploppy thought process in any way resembles what pros know. The fact is the higher the PE of the count you are adding a side count to for playing decisions the more the gain from adding the side count. This is very loosely dependent on what level count you use. It is highly related to how you weight the ace in the main count. I pointed that out. Just look at Norm's count comparison charts:

https://qfit.com/book/ModernBlackjackPage172.htm

The PE leaders are the ace neutral counts. They are closely followed by the ace compromise counts. All the fully ace reckoned counts have anemic PEs. Notice that the level of the count has no influence on PE. Felt, a level 2 fully ace reckoned count an anemic PE of .55. RPC, the count the OP uses and a fully ace reckoned count, an anemic PE of .55. Revere APC, a level 4 fully ace reckoned count, has an anemic PE of .53. Uston SS, a fully ace reckoned level 3 count, has an anemic PE of .54. Halves is the leader for multilevel fully ace reckoned counts. It is a level 3 fully ace reckoned count but still has an anemic PE of .56. The ace compromise counts are Mentor, Unbalanced Zen 2, and Zen with decent PEs of .62, .62 and .63 respectively. The ace neutral counts start at a PE of .59 for a level 1 count and go up to PE .69.

In case you didn't notice, this thread is about going to a more effective count for pitch games or adding a side count. If you are so insecure about the strength of your count that you can't try to help the OP then don't even open the thread. I suggested no count or anything else anywhere in this thread. I simply added what is very important for him to consider before making any changes concerning adding a side count. It was only in this post that I started to go count specific, and you are the one that triggered that because of your ignorance concerning the finer points of BJ. Once again I regret bypassing the ignore post when reading your post. I only did that because this is one of the more interesting threads to be started lately. You are batting almost 1.000 on that one. Your post are really totally worthless and often damaging to new players. The pros all tell you that you are wrong when you post, just like clockwork.

Of course, PE for ace reckoned counts can be tweaked significantly.

[angle_sh00ter]

Of course, PE for ace reckoned counts can be tweaked significantly.

Can you expand upon this?

My first instinct was to try and improve the playing efficiency of RPC with the use of a side count. I'm confident that I could manage one or even 2 side counts (in a pitch game) however I'm totally in the dark as to how the information can be used to significantly improve playing efficiency.

I'm not aware of anything published specifically on this subject but would be very appreciative if someone could point me in the right direction!

[Dbs6582]

If they really know their shit they know two things. I used totally neutral language so far as any count that promoted no multi-level count. I was the one that pointed out he was comfortable using RPC when the simple camp started saying he should use Hilo for pitch games. LoL

Everything I said is 100% accurate. Don't think your ploppy thought process in any way resembles what pros know. The fact is the higher the PE of the count you are adding a side count to for playing decisions the more the gain from adding the side count. This is very loosely dependent on what level count you use. It is highly related to how you weight the ace in the main count. I pointed that out. Just look at Norm's count comparison charts:

https://qfit.com/book/ModernBlackjackPage172.htm

The PE leaders are the ace neutral counts. They are closely followed by the ace compromise counts. All the fully ace reckoned counts have anemic PEs. Notice that the level of the count has no influence on PE. Felt, a level 2 fully ace reckoned count an anemic PE of .55. RPC, the count the OP uses and a fully ace reckoned count, an anemic PE of .55. Revere APC, a level 4 fully ace reckoned count, has an anemic PE of .53. Uston SS, a fully ace reckoned level 3 count, has an anemic PE of .54. Halves is the leader for multilevel fully ace reckoned counts. It is a level 3 fully ace reckoned count but still has an anemic PE of .56. The ace compromise counts are Mentor, Unbalanced Zen 2, and Zen with decent PEs of .62, .62 and .63 respectively. The ace neutral counts start at a PE of .59 for a level 1 count and go up to PE .69.

In case you didn't notice, this thread is about going to a more effective count for pitch games or adding a side count. If you are so insecure about the strength of your count that you can't try to help the OP then don't even open the thread. I suggested no count or anything else anywhere in this thread. I simply added what is very important for him to consider before making any changes concerning adding a side count. It was only in this post that I started to go count specific, and you are the one that triggered that because of your ignorance concerning the finer points of BJ. Once again I regret bypassing the ignore post when reading your post. I only did that because this is one of the more interesting threads to be started lately. You are batting almost 1.000 on that one. Your post are really totally worthless and often damaging to new players. The pros all tell you that you are wrong when you post, just like clockwork.

Three, I somewhat hate to admit it but this is one of your best posts. At least for me, it hit home since I only play pitch games and have thought about moving past Hilo. Currently, as some know, I have a hybrid approach where I use Hilo but also side count aces and sometimes 7s and then make adjustments to Hilo. Also, even though I don’t use a level 2 count, I keep a mental note if I’ve seen more 4 or 5s compared to 2 and 3s and make adjustments in my betting. With all this said, I have thought about moving up to a true ace neutral count. It would probably be hi opt 1 since I think hi opt 2 will be too taxing for me based on my objectives, which is to enjoy my time while I’m in the casino but still win some money. Hilo is like riding a bicycle. I can easily carry on conservations while I’m doing it.

Btw, I wouldn’t be too hard on Zee. I’ve learned a lot from him and appreciate his honest approach to the game. We pretty much have the same goals and objectives when it comes to bj. It’s good to hear from a fellow recreational part time AP who plays rated, enjoys the casino experience, and cares about creating harmony at the table. I also use his shoe box method to keep track of my results, but for me it’s not a shoe box. I used to keep detailed records but I found this took too much time, and I really didn’t care about the detailed results anyway. For me, the important thing is to see if I’m playing a winning game so the shoebox approach has worked. That means I’ll never be able to post one of those graphs that show my progress. I keep all my gambling money in one place and haven’t touch it. It has grown nicely the last three years, when I’ve taken the game more seriously, but I’m still not even close to pro-serious.

I’m probably like Zee too in that I don’t really care about the ridicule that comes with not taking this game so seriously. My self worth doesn’t come from what some bj pro thinks. I care more about family, friends and what’s going on in my job. I also probably care more about what the ploppies and casino staff think of me in my local casinos than what some bj pro thinks of me. I’m just being honest. I love playing bj as a side hobby but it will never define me. Thanks for your help, and I mean that! It doesn’t bother me when you put me or other people down when you give advice because I’ve learned from Zee that this is just a byproduct of being a full time pro.

[Gramazeka]

Three, I somewhat hate to admit it but this is one of your best posts. At least for me, it hit home since I only play pitch games and have thought about moving past Hilo. Currently, as some know, I have a hybrid approach where I use Hilo but also side count aces and sometimes 7s and then make adjustments to Hilo. Also, even though I don’t use a level 2 count, I keep a mental note if I’ve seen more 4 or 5s compared to 2 and 3s and make adjustments in my betting. With all this said, I have thought about moving up to a true ace neutral count. It would probably be hi opt 1 since I think hi opt 2 will be too taxing for me based on my objectives, which is to enjoy my time while I’m in the casino but still win some money. Hilo is like riding a bicycle. I can easily carry on conservations while I’m doing it.

Btw, I wouldn’t be too hard on Zee. I’ve learned a lot from him and appreciate his honest approach to the game. We pretty much have the same goals and objectives when it comes to bj. It’s good to hear from a fellow recreational part time AP who plays rated, enjoys the casino experience, and cares about creating harmony at the table. I also use his shoe box method to keep track of my results, but for me it’s not a shoe box. I used to keep detailed records but I found this took too much time, and I really didn’t care about the detailed results anyway. For me, the important thing is to see if I’m playing a winning game so the shoebox approach has worked. That means I’ll never be able to post one of those graphs that show my progress. I keep all my gambling money in one place and haven’t touch it. It has grown nicely the last three years, when I’ve taken the game more seriously, but I’m still not even close to pro-serious.

I’m probably like Zee too in that I don’t really care about the ridicule that comes with not taking this game so seriously. My self worth doesn’t come from what some bj pro thinks. I care more about family, friends and what’s going on in my job. I also probably care more about what the ploppies and casino staff think of me in my local casinos than what some bj pro thinks of me. I’m just being honest. I love playing bj as a side hobby but it will never define me. Thanks for your help, and I mean that! It doesn’t bother me when you put me or other people down when you give advice because I’ve learned from Zee that this is just a byproduct of being a full time pro.

Dbs6582, i recommend for you EBJ 2

https://www.blackjacktheforum.com/sh...653#post164653

[Dbs6582]

Dbs6582, i recommend for you EBJ 2

https://www.blackjacktheforum.com/sh...653#post164653

Thanks for the link Gramazeka. I need to spend some more time going through all the threads but this looks like something I could add to what I’m doing. I’d like to stay with a simple count like Hilo but I’m always looking for little things I can add to it. I know it doesn’t get me much, but it does hurt anything either.