Is Running Count of 0 sufficient to stand on 16 against dealer 10?

[Norm]

Cringe.

[Freightman]

Cringe.

They’re both a - short cut. The question is - can one afford a second cut, a Brit that is.

[21forme]

Not quite. Think of truncation as a bris, Brit Milah (google the phrase) - a circumcision if you will, at least for positive numbers. Truncation and flooring of negative numbers go in different directions.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Truncation

Let's play joke Jeopardy. I'll give you the punchline and you fill in the joke:

Punchline - when you rub it, it becomes a suitcase.

[Freightman]

Let's play joke Jeopardy. I'll give you the punchline and you fill in the joke:

Punchline - when you rub it, it becomes a suitcase.

A mohel’s retirement present - a wallet, fashioned from a lifetime of collected foreskins.

[Three]

Wow, simpleton here wondering what it has cost me because I have always stood at TC 0 and when its TC-1, I tend to stand but check what other cards are being played on table. So, assuming I stand at all TC-1 and above, what has it been costing me?

Check out the gain per TC:

https://www.card-counting.com/cvcxonlineviewer3.htm

At TC 0 it is barely better to stand. At TC -1 it is a coin flip. At TC -2 it is barely better to hit.

[CountinCanadian]

Not quite. Think of truncation as a bris, Brit Milah (google the phrase) - a circumcision if you will, at least for positive numbers. Truncation and flooring of negative numbers go in different directions.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Truncation

Haha.

Though I was saying if he floors and stands at true -1 or higher, he's essentially just playing it the same as someone who truncates and stands at true 0 or higher.

[Three]

You have to remember 16vT is only valuable because BS is always wrong when you have an increased bet out. For a card counter, ploppy BS is a horrible play for this hand. The correct BS for a card counter is to always stand. The deviation from card counter's BS to hit isn't worth that much, especially if you avoid negative counts like you should.

[Norm]

Well put.

[21forme]

A mohel’s retirement present - a wallet, fashioned from a lifetime of collected foreskins.

I knew you would know it!

[Freightman]

You have to remember 16vT is only valuable because BS is always wrong when you have an increased bet out. For a card counter, ploppy BS is a horrible play for this hand. The correct BS for a card counter is to always stand. The deviation from card counter's BS to hit isn't worth that much, especially if you avoid negative counts like you should.

From another perspective.
Think of a play all style and a dual ramp betting scheme. Further, consider optional cover on either or both the lower and upper ramp. Consider further the determination of spread for both the lower and upper ramp, those spreads firstly determined by deck pen, secondly adjusted for what one believes one can get away with.

Just to clarify, the ramps are not interchanged shoe by shoe, but rather interchanged within the same shoe - planned inconsistency subject to variables.

How does varying deck pen affect your thoughts on consistency of playing cover.

[ZeeBabar]

Check out the gain per TC:

https://www.card-counting.com/cvcxonlineviewer3.htm

At TC 0 it is barely better to stand. At TC -1 it is a coin flip. At TC -2 it is barely better to hit.

Thanks T3, sometimes these complicated discussions make me think I must be extremely lucky because I seem to still win without understanding or using exact indexes. So many comments and opinions that seem far away from reality.

[angle_sh00ter]

If the TC is between -3 and +3 then i generally go on what ive seem come out. Specifically i take into account the 5s and 6s. All other things being equal the more 5s in the deck the better hitting becomes, the more 6s in the deck the better standing becomes.

But like others have said its probably not making much difference either way and other considerations like cover may well be more relevant to you.

Personally i dont realy see anyone scrutinizing what i do with 16 vs 10 and even if they did then i say good luck to them figuring it out lol.

[San Jose Bella]

So, what about -1 or -2 or any other non zero running count. What is not accurate about true 0.

In 6 deck game, TC of 0 includes RC of 0 to at most 5. In average, it's correct to stand on TC of 0 for sure, but I want to dive deeper.
My argument is: When the RC is exactly 0, in average, the correct play is to hit. It's better to wait until RC reaches +1 to stand. RC of 0 is not sufficient to stand.
When RC is 1, TC is 0 cause we floor the quotient, RC of 1 can only be TC of 1 in 5/6 or greater penetration game.
I generate the 16 v 10 index based on running count(No TC), the index is 1.
11.jpg
22.jpg
33.jpg
If given two options to memorize:
1. 16 vs 10, stand at TC 0 or more.
2. 16 vs 10, stand at RC 1 or more.
The 2nd option is superior to memorize because of better accuracy, and it's not any harder to memorize, so why not?

If cover is taken into account, the whole discussion is pointless.