Most important indices for Spanish 21

[stringer]

I didn't do the calculations for the EoR's. A trusted friend did so they are not mine to give up. Kat did sight S17 EoR's and they are wrong. It has been poinThted out in the forum and confirmed by Don that they don't add up within a reasonable error rate. I am not sure about her H17 EoR's but if she messed up the S17 EoR's , it is at least likely that she did the same with the H17. These are the EoR's passed around and said to be Kat's for H17 BJ, H17 SP21, and S17 SP21. The former 2 can be found in table 5.1. I have not found the S17 SP21 EoR's in kat's book yet:


E. O. R. FOR BJ and H17 Span21 and S17 Span21 (supposedly from Kat's book)


BJH17;SP21H17;SP21S17
--------------------
2 +.42 +.29 +.40
3 +.51 +.40 +.56
4 +.69 +.56 +.80
5 +.84 +.65 +.96
6 +.49 +.40 +.56
7 +.24 +.04 +.08
8 -0.04 -0.21 -.24
9 -0.25 -0.17 -.16
X -0.60 -0.44 -.48
A -0.52 -0.73 -1.28


When you sum the EoR's for H17 BJ you get -0.02 which is reasonable. But for S17 SP21 +0.24 which is totally unacceptable. And for H17 SP21 you get -0.09 which is out of the desired range by a little. Table 5.1 in Kat's book has the H17 EoR's for BJ and SP21. I also couldn't find S17 EoR's in Kat's book in chart form. I am not sure where or if they are in there. There are so many different versions of H17 SP21 with rules and number of decks when you consider all the pontoon games H17 SP21 that it is difficult to compare EoR's as apples to apples but the EoR's I have for H17 SP21 are quite different but they are for different splitting rules and don't specify the number of decks. Plus there may be a no hole card issue. I can't say it is an apples to apples comparison. The issue of the EoR's attributed to Kat is they add to a sum that is to far from 0. If memory serves the sum should be within 0.02 to 0.03 of 0. The ones I have add to -0.0164 for S17 SP21 and +0.0013 for H17 SP21 if I entered everything right into the calculator. This acceptable error rate around the 0 sum for EoR's would be a good thing for Don or someone else that has experience generating EoR to chime in on. An interesting but almost no effect fact about SP21 EoR's is that the spade rank is strategically favored over other ranks so to get a true EOR for the ranks affected (6, 7 and 8) you need to calculate a spade adjustment to the calculated EoR's for these ranks. The biggest adjustment is for the 6. The 7 has a smaller adjustment and the 8 is unaffected by the rank disparity. All the effects are small but explain a little of a positive error in the sum of the EoR's.

Okay.... more interesting infomation to chew over....thanks for that...
"Kat did sight S17 EOR'S and they are wrong...." ... this is a surprise for me as I have tried to follow all Sp21 chatter on all of the boards... I find it surprising that these numbers are attributed to her. This has to be wrong. You are right, they do sum to +.24.

It doesn't even make sense... seems the number for a six is too high as the six combines for the 6-7-8 bonus and is important in that respect. And it seems crazy that the number for five should be so much higher than its five counterpart in the H17 game. So the number for the Ace must be far too high (negatively) as well. As you said also, these numbers are not in the book, so if they were dead wrong in print I could appreciate assigning the error to her....

There are so many different versions of H17 SP21 with rules and number of decks when you consider all the pontoon games H17 SP21 that it is difficult to compare EoR's as apples to apples but the EoR's I have for H17 SP21 are quite different but they are for different splitting rules and don't specify the number of decks.

I have never seen any SP21 game that is not SP4 and not 6 or 8 decks... as I think we are all worried about the North American game and not kooky Pontoon variants...

In any event, consensus of opinion seems to have the Ace EOR as a higher value in the S17 game. Withour revealing your friend's "propietary" ace EOR that he has calculated, I am going to take a guess that it might be about -.90 for the S17 game. Am I close?? In any event, it is still not clear to me why this number should be higher (negatively) for the S17 game.

thanks....

[ZenMaster_Flash]

"-.90 for the S17 game. Am I close?"

No, not close at all.

The difference [in the E.O.R. of Aces]

between the two versions of Span21

is seen in T3's post #35:

SP21H17;SP21S17
--------------------
2 +.29 +.40
3 +.40 +.56
4 +.56 +.80
5 +.65 +.96
6 +.40 +.56
7 +.04 +.08
8 -0.21 -.24
9 -0.17 -.16
X -0.44 -.48
A -0.73 -1.28

[stringer]

No, not close at all.

The difference [in the E.O.R. of Aces]

between the two versions of Span21

is seen in T3's post #35:

SP21H17;SP21S17
--------------------
2 +.29 +.40
3 +.40 +.56
4 +.56 +.80
5 +.65 +.96
6 +.40 +.56
7 +.04 +.08
8 -0.21 -.24
9 -0.17 -.16
X -0.44 -.48
A -0.73 -1.28

Unless I am missing something there is a problem with these S17 numbers. See Tthree's post number 35. In his explanation he attributes them to Katrina. I have never seen them before. They are certainly not in Katrina's book. If you sum them, the total is off by .24, which Tthree admits is way off and some kind of error. I am not trying to be difficult about this, but they just don't add up.