Moses, read more and post less until you have a wider view. It will help your understanding. Your questions show basic misunderstandings.
Do not be hyperbolic. It is defensive, not flattering.
What you call "deep" is statistically shallow.
You may have a good shovel for your digging,
(with Norm's software) ...
but a prospector needs to know a bit of geology
and a bit of cartography before setting out.
A lucky prospector might find gold while searching
for diamonds. Lucky guy. As we used to say in N.Y.
"He stepped in it."
I am thinking that you are inherently semi-innumerate
as nearly all people are.
Hence, the techno-trope: Garbage In / Garbage Out.
First off I came to realize that you can't accurately separate betting and playing. Your optimal ramp will depend on how many indices you use so as you add indices you also bet more. The gain from more indices is not just the gain from index play but the total gain from index play and and the increased bets.
This is the quote that started the debate on the gain.
So what we are debating is how much more are the rest of the indices worth over just the gain from the I18. If we used Don's numbers, which may have been pulled out of thin air, SCORE increases by 10 for the I18 over no indices and by 15 for all indices as determined by simulation. That means the 2/3rd (10/15) of the gain from all index play is from the I18 and 1/3rd from the rest of the indices ((15-10)/15). Actually that is what Don's percentages break down to. Don, did you just pull some numbers out of thin air as your post seems to imply?
It would be interesting to do this for Hilo and a high PE count like Hiopt2/ASC. It would give you an idea of what indices are worth in relation to a counts playing strength and how much more powerful indices are with a count that has strong index decisions. If this debate is to be made it should be thorough and consider various playing strength counts for the percentage of gain from indices in terms of SCORE and c-SCORE for larger spreads than SCORE uses. I have never seen this qualified in any comprehensive for for various counts. Hilo would be a great ace reckoned count, Halves for an ace compromise count, and Hiopt2/ASC for an ace neutral count. Compare SCORE as well as c-SCORE for 1-16 and 1-20 spreads with 4.5/6 decks and H17, DAS; H17, DAS, LS; S17,DAS; and S17,DAS, LS.
That would be interesting TThree. Let us know the results when you finish if you don't mind.
Play within your bankroll, pick your games with care and learn everything you can about the game. The winning will come. It has to. It's in the cards. -- Bryce Carlson
The quote is incorrect. If you learned an extra 25 negative number index plays as an example why on earth would you be raising your bet? You did not say which index plays you add. Also when you reach a strike point for a deviation change the difference in edge gain is very slight.
Optimal bets, yes.
But does practical ramp change so much ?
http://pokermenteur.free.fr/images/IL18.gif
Even optimal bets ramps (Yes, CE/WR=0.50 ).
http://pokermenteur.free.fr/images/IL18a.gif
Last edited by Phoebe; 09-27-2016 at 02:56 AM.
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Tthree I find your response preposterous, frankly my head is spinning. Personally I increase, and lower my bets based strictly on the true count, not on how many index plays I know. Speaking of index plays it is my opinion that players should avoid playing as many negative counts as humanly possible, where the optimal bet is $ 0.00.
Actually, it kinda sorta makes sense, while you also make sense. I think it's just a matter if deciphering where everyone is coming from.
3 is saying that that addl indices raises (slightly) win rates, which increases bankroll, which allows resize of bets - that the compounding effect of the additional indices, though initially slight, has more impact over a period time. Very much like your money in the marketplace. Youre saying what is tried and true - betting differentials in relation to your advantage or disadvantage. I'll muddy the waters a bit, for fun. Consider dual betting ramps within the same shoe. This could mean raising your bets in a declining count. Interesting implications.
" Originally Posted by TthreeFirst off I came to realize that you can't accurately separate betting and playing. Your optimal ramp will depend on how many indices you use so as you add indices you also bet more. The gain from more indices is not just the gain from index play but the total gain from index play and and the increased bets."
Sorry Norm I have to respectfully disagree with you. With all the new players on this site, it is statements like the above one that could easily be misinterpreted costing the new player big losses.
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