Memorizing full index or between -6 and +6

**stopgambling** · 08-08-2016, 10:50 PM

Originally Posted by Tthree

But memorizing indices is so quick and easy why should it wait for you to develop skills that may take a long time to master.

i thought you said indices needs good deck estimation ,if one's deck estimation is wrong their use of indices would be wrong. right?

**Three** · 08-08-2016, 10:54 PM

Originally Posted by stopgambling

i thought you said indices needs good deck estimation ,if one's deck estimation is wrong their use of indices would be wrong. right?

Yes, that would weaken the gain by the number of times your errant TC causes you to make the wrong decision. Most of the time decisions are not close but at fewer decks remaining accuracy becomes more important.

**Frank Galvin** · 08-09-2016, 12:04 AM

Originally Posted by BJGenius007

I-18 includes insurance, 10 stand/hit, 5 double, 2 split.

Of the 18, only the 2 split are dangerous index play that may alert the casino surveillance. If you have to play all hands, you might find full index play on all small upcard is very helpful. First step, you need to memorize all indexes against dealer upcard 2,3,4:

16 v {2,3,4} : {-8, -9, -10}
15 v {2,3,4} : {-6, -7, -8}
14 v {2,3,4} : {-3, -4, -5}
13 v {2,3,4} : {-1, -2, -3}

The easy way is to remind yourself that 12 v {2,3,4,5,6} are already in Illustrious 18, so are 13 v {2,3}. So you try to add 10 more index plays. I would divide them into two parts. 13/14 which have indexes -1, -2, -3, then -3, -4, -5. And 15/16 have indexes -6,-7,-8 and -8,-9,-10.

After you are familiar with these indexes, the next extension is to add upcard 5 and 6:

16 v {2,3,4,5,6} : {-8,-9,-10,-12,-12}
15 v {2,3,4,5,6} : {-6,-7,-8,-9,-8.5}
14 v {2,3,4,5,6} : {-3,-4,-5,-6.5,-6}
13 v {2,3,4,5,6} : {-1,-2,-3,-4.5,-4}

I did hit 16 v 6 occasionally when the index play calls for it.

BJGenius007,

Please explain your decision to hit 16 v. 6. Your stated index number is -12.

Are you indirectly suggesting that a counter should be playing when the TC is less than -12???

**BJGenius007** · 08-09-2016, 12:33 AM

Originally Posted by Frank Galvin

BJGenius007,

Please explain your decision to hit 16 v. 6. Your stated index number is -12.

Are you indirectly suggesting that a counter should be playing when the TC is less than -12???

Yes, hit 16 v 6 when TC is -12 or lower.

**LoveBJ** · 08-09-2016, 02:04 AM

Originally Posted by BJGenius007

Yes, hit 16 v 6 when TC is -12 or lower.

Why would you be playing this game?? I would leave this game if the TC got below -5 or -6, depending on conditions.

RS · 08-09-2016, 02:08 AM

Hitting a 16 vs 6? Are you crazy? I thought some were crazy for hitting 12vs4....but that takes the cake right there.

**LoveBJ** · 08-09-2016, 02:19 AM

Originally Posted by RollingStoned

Hitting a 16 vs 6? Are you crazy? I thought some were crazy for hitting 12vs4....but that takes the cake right there.

Stoned: My HI-LO chart says that I should Hit 12 vs 4 if TC < 0. Am I crazy for following this??? Is my chart wrong???

**Gramazeka** · 08-09-2016, 04:32 AM

Crazy pays attention to minus indexes when there is the minimum bet.

**ZeeBabar** · 08-09-2016, 04:40 AM

I have been following just the I-18 but sometimes, reading this forum one can be persuaded to go for more indexes. It's been quite informative. Since I always have minimums atTC1 and below, I will not bother with negative indexes beyond I-18. I think that maybe I should concentrate on deck estimation.

**Gramazeka** · 08-09-2016, 04:49 AM

1,112 posts! I understand nothing!

**BJGenius007** · 08-09-2016, 05:17 AM

Originally Posted by RollingStoned

Hitting a 16 vs 6? Are you crazy? I thought some were crazy for hitting 12vs4....but that takes the cake right there.

Ideally you should have Wong Out long time ago, probably at TC -1. But as I said in the beginning, IF YOU HAVE TO PLAY IT ALL. Sometimes you run out of all the excuses to Wong out and the casino is busy and has no other nearby casino. To minimize your loss, you have to use all the indexes.

**ZeeBabar** · 08-09-2016, 05:46 AM

Originally Posted by LoveBJ

Why would you be playing this game?? I would leave this game if the TC got below -5 or -6, depending on conditions.

In DD games, often we just play all. If such a TC is hit, its usually in the last round or so.

**Frank Galvin** · 08-09-2016, 05:48 AM

BJGenius007,

I play sparingly in my local native tribal casinos these days (really not worth it in light of rules and gaming conditions). Looking forward to an upcoming business trip out of state, and casinos near my conference. But, when I do play locally for practice sake, I essentially use a play all strategy. But, when it gets into serious negative territory, I do get up, use bathroom, take a walk to food court area, cash in some chips, check out games in other pits, etc.

Why would you stay at a game with a -12 TC? Absolutely no benefit, not even if you suspect you are getting heat. Only result will be a steady loss of $$$, and your accrual of seriously negative EV.

That's why I was asking why you would still be hanging in there at a -12 TC. Who cares what the negative index number for 16 vs. 6 is at -12 TC?

As Gramazeka correctly pointed out, you only have a minimum bet out at that point anyway. But, if you took a break, you never would have placed a minimum bet out there at a -12 TC, and so, the value of hitting a 16 vs. the Dealer's 6, would be at best, a hypothetical, and not a real world experience.