Casino comps & E.V

**apkevy** · 06-04-2015, 02:00 AM

I've been practicing card counting for the past semester. I recently found out about my local casino offering a Player Card which basically makes me earn 1$ for every 300$ waggered.

Does it mean I get a +0.33 E.V. bonus ?
If the initial house advantage is 0.66% (8D, H17, DOA, NRSA, 2D cut), if we add up the Player's Card bonus then it should be 0.66-0.33 = 0.33% right ?

I am using simple HI-LO, Ill18, a 1-16 bet spread and I wong out at true -1.

There is absolutely no heat at all because there are no pit bosses watching 10$ tables and the dealers seem ignorant in general about how to play the game.

If my calculations above are correct, assuming the house advantage is reduced to 0.33 %, would you guys consider this a good game ?

Also, should I lower my bet spread to let's say 1-12 to reduce the S.D ( I have a 20k BR)

This is a recreational situation and I plan to play at least 15 hours/week.

I would like some advices as I am new to this

Thanks?

**Blitzkrieg** · 06-04-2015, 02:24 AM

If I lose $300 wagered to make $1 that doesn't sound like much of a bonus. The points that accumulate on your players card will more than likely be refundable for meals, rooms, etc to be used within the casino or a sister property.

**apkevy** · 06-04-2015, 02:33 AM

Sorry if i was not clear, you don't have to lose 300$ you just have to bet 300 $.

I also asked them about the rewards and you dont have to spend it within the casino. It's money.

**Bodarc** · 06-04-2015, 02:46 AM

Blitz, I think it was $1 for each 300 wagered, not each 300 lost.

Apkevy, if you are playing a HE of .66, you're prob playing a 6D H17 game. Using a 1-16 spread and wonging at -1, you are not playing at a disadvantage, your advantage is about .80% and your ROR is 5% assuming a 10-160 spread. (Are you sure it isn't 10-150?) In short, in the long run, your comps should be a plus since you should be winning and not losing.

I am wondering how they keep up with your wagers unless it is calculated on your first bet since you said no pit bosses are watching the table. In that case, a larger check in bet may earn you more in comps.

**Blitzkrieg** · 06-04-2015, 03:03 AM

Originally Posted by apkevy

Sorry if i was not clear, you don't have to lose 300$ you just have to bet 300 $.

I also asked them about the rewards and you dont have to spend it within the casino. It's money.

That's nice.

**Blitzkrieg** · 06-04-2015, 03:17 AM

Originally Posted by Bodarc

Blitz, I think it was $1 for each 300 wagered, not each 300 lost.

Apkevy, if you are playing a HE of .66, you're prob playing a 6D H17 game. Using a 1-16 spread and wonging at -1, you are not playing at a disadvantage, your advantage is about .80% and your ROR is 5% assuming a 10-160 spread. (Are you sure it isn't 10-150?) In short, in the long run, your comps should be a plus since you should be winning and not losing.

I am wondering how they keep up with your wagers unless it is calculated on your first bet since you said no pit bosses are watching the table. In that case, a larger check in bet may earn you more in comps.

Ok to potentially lose $300 for $1. I know what the OP meant. That's a good point about the house being able to calculate the wagers. It almost seems like electronic blackjack because how else is the house going to know when the players hit the $300 mark for wagers. The pit boss isn't going to calculate everyone's wagers.

RS · 06-04-2015, 03:37 AM

Yeah, that seems a bit odd. Usually it's something like, "For every $10 average bet, you get X points per hour. Y points can be turned into $1 cash."

Anyhow, if the 0.33% CB is for real...then that's even more particularly odd -- to offer that much CB on table games!

OK, so how to attack this game....In my opinion.....IF they are doing the "for every $10 avg bet you get x points per hour and y points can be used for $1 cash" thing....then you gotta play this a little differently than a traditional BJ counting game. Chances are, you're going to buy in with a player's card, floorman will watch you play a round or two (or hell, maybe just see how much you put into the betting circle, even if you're waiting for other players to buy in or someone's coloring up)...then enter your average bet into the computer, and he won't be around for another 10 minutes or so. If this is the case, then you want to put a big bet out there on the first round (maybe $75 to $100?). If all works properly, he'll enter it into the computer and walk away. From there you can slowly taper down to your normal minimum $10 bet or w/e. This way you get rated (more CB) for being a $100 bettor -- and it'll also get the whole spread/cheques play thing out of the way early on.

Then again, that's with a few assumptions....and as weird as this "$300 wagered = $1 CB" thing is....there's probably more information required in order to make a good judgement/recommendation on how to play it.

**Dieter** · 06-04-2015, 06:18 AM

Originally Posted by apkevy

a Player Card which basically makes me earn 1$ for every 300$ waggered.

Is that table wagers or machine wagers?

A lot of the cards I've seen will give about that level of rebate for machine coin-in, but there's a separate manner of tracking for table games.

**apkevy** · 06-04-2015, 06:58 AM

It's electronic blackjack ( virtual chips ) but with a dealer dealing real cards, they don't calculate your average wagger, it just adds up as you play. I will earn 0.33% in bonus of every single bet. If on one hand I bet 300$ and the next 10 hands I bet 30$, this means I will earn 1x0.33(300) + 10x0.33(30) = 2$. There are no average wagger.

**RWM** · 06-04-2015, 07:00 AM

I highly recommend you pick up copy of the book Comp City. Usually what they are giving you is comp dollars which are not the same as cash but still have value.

**apkevy** · 06-04-2015, 07:10 AM

Originally Posted by Dieter

Is that table wagers or machine wagers?

A lot of the cards I've seen will give about that level of rebate for machine coin-in, but there's a separate manner of tracking for table games.

You might be right, I just asked the Custommer's Service guy about the rewards and he told me for every 300 $ I will earn 1$ but he didnt mention if like you said there is a different manner of tracking table games waggers.

I will have to ask again more precisely next time.

**apkevy** · 06-04-2015, 07:19 AM

I called them and there is no difference between table games rewards and machines ! It still is the same ratio ( 0.33% ) that's awesome

**Shadowless** · 06-04-2015, 07:44 AM

Originally Posted by apkevy

It's electronic blackjack ( virtual chips ) but with a dealer dealing real cards, they don't calculate your average wagger, it just adds up as you play. I will earn 0.33% in bonus of every single bet. If on one hand I bet 300$ and the next 10 hands I bet 30$, this means I will earn 1x0.33(300) + 10x0.33(30) = 2$. There are no average wagger.

I would avoid counting cards on electronic blackjack.

I'm sure electronic blackjack has capabilities for tracking the count as well as each player's bets since the card reader has to scan the cards and display them on the corresponding player's screen.

I've played electronic blackjack for fun once and there were a lot of technical difficulties. Sometimes cards wouldn't scan properly and the floor would have to come over and manually input the card that wasn't read properly.