About ace side count

[Jack Jackson]

Furthermore ...

While an accurate Ace Side Count radically improves your Betting Correlation;
it also improves your Playing Efficiency for quite a few hands, including insurance
and (mostly) doubles and splits, where you are investing extra money.
Myfavorite plays are splitting 9's against dealer 7 and Ace (with surplus Aces).
Think about it.

From what i remember, the number of remaining Aces to be played has a profound impact on this particular hand..However My fav. is to SPLIT a pair of Tens vs. Dealers bust card with a surplus of Aces remaining

[cc12b]

[QUOTE=Tthree;222220]Oh my God. I get so much. I get a trusted ally because I am very fussy about who I train. I will give most advice if they ask but training means sharing stuff I wouldn't share with hardly anyone.

T3, I hope you pick the right person(s). As I/we know, even the best guarded secret like nuclear technology can not be kept. I read an article in Snyder's site saying that a high ranking casino boss infiltrated into their meetings and all those in meeting were 86ed from that casino when they came to play. I also read somewhere the phrase "what human can created, the humane can re-create/copy"

[Freightman]

From what i remember, the number of remaining Aces to be played has a profound impact on this particular hand..However My fav. is to SPLIT a pair of Tens vs. Dealers bust card with a surplus of Aces remaining

Good count with ace surplus us also valuable for 10 on 10 doubles as well as 99 v 7.

[Jack Jackson]

Good count with ace surplus us also valuable for 10 on 10 doubles as well as 99 v 7.

I Wanted to show a few examples for using the Ace Side Count for a couple particular hands, which are 10v10, 10vA, 88vX(lose only original bet) and the 99v7 where the has Ace has a profound impact on these hands...Remember sometimes the Ace has a bigger influence depending on the hand in play as this example will show you..Notice 88vX with exactly 1 deck remaining(2 deck game) and perfect composition with 1 deck left to play...Of course its better to split than it is to stand right? Yes. Now notice what happens when we remove the last four Aces (and with a TC of 0) in the deck..It now becomes a better play to STAND than it is to SPLIT..So therefore it stands to reason that if your index for this hand is +8(level2) you would assign +2 for every Surplus of Aces dealt FROM the deck..Interestingly enough however in the "other two examples" (10v10,A and 99v7) the Ace should be assigned +4 or -4(twice the value) for these hands..For example notice players 10 v dealers Ace with a TC of 0 and under normal deck composition..Its a much better play to HIT than it is to double..But ADD an Extra Two Acess into that deck, it now becomes a much better play to double than to hit..SO therefore if your index for Ho2 or A02 is +8(H17) you would in effect value the Aces at +4 or -4..And this rule applies for 99v as well..

10vX.jpg10vA.jpg88vXa.jpg88xX.jpg99v7.jpg

[Jack Jackson]

99vs7(continued)

99v7x.jpg

[ZenMaster_Flash]

(10v10,A and 99v7) the Ace should be assigned +4 or -4(twice the value) for these hands.
e.g. dealers Ace with a TC of 0 and under normal deck composition, but ADD an Extra Two
Aces, it now becomes a much better play to double than to hit. Therefore if your index for Ho2
or A02 is +8 (H17) you would in effect value the Aces at +4 or -4. And this rule applies for 99v7.

Your post is largely correct ~ but with Hi-Opt II ...
9-9 vs. 7 Aces are +/- 6 for the Running Count Adjustment,
as amazing as that sounds. Also ... For 9-9 vs Ace, the Aces
are tagged at +/- 4.

The Hi-Opt II index [double deck H17] for 9-9 vs Ace is +2
so one surplus Ace at TC -2 suffices to split the 9's for a nice
e.v. increase, and, importantly, what looks like an idiotic play!

[Jack Jackson]

So to summarize assuming cards other than A are evenly distributed:
1) A Hilo TC of +2 with 1 deck left and 2 ace surplus you double 10vT.
2) A Hilo TC of 0 with 1 deck left and aces at expectation (neutral deck) you hit 10vT.
3) A Hilo TC of -4 with about 1 deck left and no aces left (4 ace deficit) the decision to split is a coin flip that barley favors splitting 8,8vT over hitting but if your bet is big enough you might want to hit for risk averse reasons.
4) A Hilo TC of 0 with about 1 deck left and aces are at expectation (4 aces left) splitting is by far the better decision for 8,8vT.
5) A Hilo TC of +2 with about 1 deck left and 2 surplus aces splitting is by far the better decision for 9,9vT.

Note that if you are keeping an ace side count you are almost certainly using an ace neutral main count and not Hilo. I used Hilo because that is the ubiquitous count among the community. Hilo players can see just how much ace density effects causing poor play of ace sensitive hands.

1) Agreed! 2 percent better to double..(Risk Averse asiide)
2)Agreed..Theyre both +ev plays but hittng is better than doubling..
3) For Hi-lo you would ADD +4 to your(+8 for Ho2) Running Count Right? Which would bring your RC/TC back to 0 correct? But if your index to STAND is +4 then its still a better play to SPLIT 88vX..(unless your index is 0?)
4) Agreed! But Remember since your using Hi-lo you must asisgn the correct value for aces to reflect the indices and level of the count your using..OH! Now i see why you said that in question 3
5)If you meant 88vX here, yes your correct!..However If there was two aces deficit, your TC would now be +4 since you must ADD this to your RC..

[Jack Jackson]

Your post is largely correct ~ but with Hi-Opt II ...
9-9 vs. 7 Aces are +/- 6 for the Running Count Adjustment,
as amazing as that sounds. Also ... For 9-9 vs Ace, the Aces
are tagged at +/- 4.

The Hi-Opt II index [double deck H17] for 9-9 vs Ace is +2
so one surplus Ace at TC -2 suffices to split the 9's for a nice
e.v. increase, and, importantly, what looks like an idiotic play!

Ya, i knew it was at least x4 for each ace, but i thought x6 might be overkill..Hey Flash, have you checked out 9vs7 and 16vs7?Looks like the Ace is pretty helpful here..Perhaps we should make a sweet 16 chart for the most useful Ace Adjustment Plays for Ho2..I was actually disappointed to see that they dont help splitting Tens as much as i thought they would..Perhaps -/+ 1 for each Ace..

[ZenMaster_Flash]

"16vs7?Looks like the Ace is pretty helpful."

NO.

The Ace serves as a fairly weak card for the player because winning chances for the player
with a presumed 17 are poor. Aces are a STRONGER card for the dealer. Think about it ~
If there are excess Aces and both the dealer and the player have an Ace who benefits more?

This is rather similar to A6, A7, A8, A9 vs a dealer 6 or 5.

Look for hands where the Ace helps the player and hurts the dealer and you will be in a
"key card" situation. Best example: Surplus Sevens (7's) where the decision is 14 vs 9
(without L.S.) You can see that Surplus 7's simultaneously HELP you and HURT the dealer!

Note: I side-count sevens in DD games, raising my P.E. to well over 0.7x%.
See Peter Griffin's "Theory of Blackjack" if you really want to learn that is.

[Jack Jackson]

I Just wanted to point out some interesting "secondary counts" ive came across over the last couple years..Most are just for show and are just examples of what "optimal counts" with a secondary would look like..Here a few:

1) Revere APC and the other Revere APC

2334320-1-3-4(X-1/A+4) .997
2334320-1-4(0).68

Use the betting count for Multiple Deck and combine the Secondary for single and Double Deck

2) Victor APC:
2223220-1-3(0).68
(3,4,5,6+1 A-4)
2334320-1-3-4.997

3)2223210-1-2-3(X-1/A+4).937 Betting count for Multiple deck only!( 1)2223210-1-3 .678

Heres one that i like and used for awhile, but ended up going back to hi-opt2 w/secondary..

1 1121 1 1 0 -2 (0)
0 1111 0 -1 -1 0( -2)
1 2232 1 0 -1 -2 -2 BC.919

Note to T3: I respect your privacy not to disclose any info on Ho2 w/secondary but if your willing to discuss it on open board then feel free to do so..I would be very interested to see and know what your tagging the Ace as and whether not your still adding half of your secondary count to the primary?

[ferenc11]

What do you mean by "The more insulting the better"?

[ZenMaster_Flash]

In 2001 the late Rob McGarvey of Toronto, Ontario penned a book called
"Aces and Faces Blackjack"

Basically, the author tweaked Hi-Opt II and the Zen Count. The book presents
simulation results. An interesting read, from which one can conclude that those
Counts may be weakened by the tweaks, or at least they may gain a slippery but
concrete, infinitesimally minuscule, amount of e.v., along with the accelerated error
rate one can expect when moving from a Level Two to a Level Three Count.

If anyone wishes to discuss this with me privately, they ought to contact me.

[Freightman]

What do you mean by "The more insulting the better"?

Didn't see the actual context in which it was written, however, it almost certainly refers to soread.

So, a polite spread at a 2 deck game would be 25-150. An insulting spread would be 1x25 to 2x500. Come to think if it, that would be pretty insulting at a 6 deck game also