Best cure when on a losing streak and losing patience and discipline?

[tomf23]

just to add
my background is mainly poker.
i started learning card counting 12-13 years ago before poker. games were way better than but i had no real money. then online poker came about and it was a printing press for anyone with a brain and i stopped playing bj. online poker at least in the us is now effectively dead for any meaningful stakes.

lately i've wanted to get back into card counting as it's always interested me, i enjoy the idea of beating the house from a psychological standpoint and when i'm in vegas for poker i have a lot of down time. dead time for poker and great times to play bj happen to coincide for the most part.

i'll say this for poker players and i'm sure it's the same for card counters.anybody halfway decent can play poker well when running like god. but i've seens tons of poker players unravel when they run bad for a month or two and shred their bankrolls. there are a lot of people with a better a game than me but i don't tilt get upset etc and just focus on did i make the right plays or not. my poker a game is good not great but it's always there.

[NotEnoughHeat]

i'll say this for poker players and i'm sure it's the same for card counters.anybody halfway decent can play poker well when running like god. but i've seens tons of poker players unravel when they run bad for a month or two and shred their bankrolls. there are a lot of people with a better a game than me but i don't tilt get upset etc and just focus on did i make the right plays or not. my poker a game is good not great but it's always there.

I personally have never, and have never heard, of a skillful counter tilting. Sure, we can get mental fatigue and overly compensate for heat but our decisions are figured out ahead of time and it's easy to follow whether or not you have just taken a bad beat. At most, perhaps emotions might put a damper on your cognitive performance and you could lose speed and accuracy. Decisions aren't as clear cut in poker and it's very easy to convince yourself to do the wrong thing or just say f it idk and do that silly call or shove. I personally find poker harder from a discipline stand point.

[tomf23]

I personally have never, and have never heard, of a skillful counter tilting. Sure, we can get mental fatigue and overly compensate for heat but our decisions are figured out ahead of time and it's easy to follow whether or not you have just taken a bad beat. At most, perhaps emotions might put a damper on your cognitive performance and you could lose speed and accuracy. Decisions aren't as clear cut in poker and it's very easy to convince yourself to do the wrong thing or just say f it idk and do that silly call or shove. I personally find poker harder from a discipline stand point.

this thread is a good example of it though. this guy runs hotter than the sun, then loses 3 sessions in a row and has to take weeks off to calm down. imagine if instead he ran like garbage out of the gate.how well would he play then? would he still believe in the math? i agree on really skilled counters (like really skilled poker players) but most counters aren't that skilled. it's easy to believe in the math when winning. but when losing most people are either prone to pressing even in bad counts or too scared to put out bets, certain doubles'splits in high counts etc.

you're right that poker decisions are far less clear cut in poker.

[gm7lp]

this thread is a good example of it though. this guy runs hotter than the sun, then loses 3 sessions in a row and has to take weeks off to calm down. imagine if instead he ran like garbage out of the gate.how well would he play then? would he still believe in the math? i agree on really skilled counters (like really skilled poker players) but most counters aren't that skilled. it's easy to believe in the math when winning. but when losing most people are either prone to pressing even in bad counts or too scared to put out bets, certain doubles'splits in high counts etc.

you're right that poker decisions are far less clear cut in poker.

Some good points being raised. I agree with the pressing in bad counts or not putting out big enough bets on good counts (ie gunshy) not sure about the splits....maybe 88 on a 10 or ace but all other "actions" are pretty much following a memorized index.

I agree that poker is not as clear cut. In fact its the direct oppisite. I was a poker pro for 2 years out of college so ive done my time in that realm. Poker is an art while blackjack is a factory. But blackjack is more lucrative because.... the house doesnt change whereas in poker theres always somebody better than you.

Update: played a 4th session. Lost. 12.5 hrs long now. Down 100 units of a 900 unit bankroll. Seems to be getting better as i lost 90 units in the first 6.5 hrs then today i played 6 hrs (way too long i know) but only lost 10 units.

Since sessions dont really count and its really hands played but hrs are a proxy for that. Just wondering how many hours your worst streaks are??

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[gm7lp]

Some good points being raised. I agree with the pressing in bad counts or not putting out big enough bets on good counts (ie gunshy) not sure about the splits....maybe 88 on a 10 or ace but all other "actions" are pretty much following a memorized index.

I agree that poker is not as clear cut. In fact its the direct oppisite. I was a poker pro for 2 years out of college so ive done my time in that realm. Poker is an art while blackjack is a factory. But blackjack is more lucrative because.... the house doesnt change whereas in poker theres always somebody better than you.

Update: played a 4th session. Lost. 12.5 hrs long now. Down 100 units of a 900 unit bankroll. Seems to be getting better as i lost 90 units in the first 6.5 hrs then today i played 6 hrs (way too long i know) but only lost 10 units.

Since sessions dont really count and its really hands played but hrs are a proxy for that. Just wondering how many hours your worst streaks are??

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By the way thanks everyone. Some real good tips and stories being shared

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[tomf23]

Some good points being raised. I agree with the pressing in bad counts or not putting out big enough bets on good counts (ie gunshy) not sure about the splits....maybe 88 on a 10 or ace but all other "actions" are pretty much following a memorized index.

I agree that poker is not as clear cut. In fact its the direct oppisite. I was a poker pro for 2 years out of college so ive done my time in that realm. Poker is an art while blackjack is a factory. But blackjack is more lucrative because.... the house doesnt change whereas in poker theres always somebody better than you.

Update: played a 4th session. Lost. 12.5 hrs long now. Down 100 units of a 900 unit bankroll. Seems to be getting better as i lost 90 units in the first 6.5 hrs then today i played 6 hrs (way too long i know) but only lost 10 units.

Since sessions dont really count and its really hands played but hrs are a proxy for that. Just wondering how many hours your worst streaks are??

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Awesome if the bolded is true.
Poker has gotten a lot harder in the last 10 years. If i played the same style I played in 2006 today i wouldn't make any money. But i made more money in 2006 than I do now because the games were so good now that just playing like a nit would win the money.

However while hourly's should be higher in blackjack isn't it hard to get in a ton of quality hours and have longevity in the game?

I did some counting my last Vegas trip. I don't think I have a huge edge as I'm rusty as hell but I did find some good games and dealers giving really good pen.
I'm going back for a few weeks during wsop but poker games are basically good 24/7 then so I probably won't play much if any bj.

My goal for novemeber/december when i make yet another trip is to count cards during the dead poker times. I want to be really good by then,know my indices cold, have a good act down if needed and practice a lot with simulation software to know for sure i have a good edge.

I'm ok with losing money when getting it in with the best of it. I'm not ok with losing money playing without an edge.

[NotEnoughHeat]

i agree on really skilled counters (like really skilled poker players) but most counters aren't that skilled. it's easy to believe in the math when winning. but when losing most people are either prone to pressing even in bad counts or too scared to put out bets, certain doubles'splits in high counts etc.

I think it depends who we consider counters. Unlike poker, blackjack counting has a bit of a polarized skill range. There's a large percentage of beginners and novices who don't even have a skeleton counting game going (might count but not adjust bets or decisions properly, if at all, let alone do so at reasonably optimized levels). The turnover for this group is huge. On the other hand, there are a few who have figured out the large list of basics and the nuances that come with it. When I use the term 'counter' myself I'm referring to these people, the ones who are playing a winning game at a reasonable SCORE which I imagine to be a surprisingly small percent of those who attempt to count.

[gm7lp]

I think it depends who we consider counters. Unlike poker, blackjack counting has a bit of a polarized skill range. There's a large percentage of beginners and novices who don't even have a skeleton counting game going (might count but not adjust bets or decisions properly, if at all, let alone do so at reasonably optimized levels). The turnover for this group is huge. On the other hand, there are a few who have figured out the large list of basics and the nuances that come with it. When I use the term 'counter' myself I'm referring to these people, the ones who are playing a winning game at a reasonable SCORE which I imagine to be a surprisingly small percent of those who attempt to count.

Agreed. 9 out of 10 counters ive seen are atrocious and actually hurt the real counters. They might make a stupid comment here or there to make it seem like they know whats up but when you watch them play its clearly a losing game. OR... they may have skill but suck at camouflage. Blatantly altering bets.

I dont play in the states though so my comments may not apply there but.... ive yet to meet a truly good player who is skilled at both counting AND camouflage

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