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If you used Zen before, I'd personally stick with it. Why fix something that ain't broke? You can find the indices for Zen here http://blackjackforumonline.com/cont...nt_Indices.htm
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Fenix, on other thread you said you switch to HO2 and get better result. Please share the experience as how long it takes you to master the new count and if you have to do it again what to avoid and the short cut. I do not want to restart the which count debate, just want to know the best way to do it. ThanksOriginally Posted by Fenix
The only major difference between Zen, which I had been using, and HO2 was the ace side count. There's a few other differences like the 6 tag and the indices are slightly different. The ace side count took me like 6 months to learn. I wasn't fully applying myself the whole time though. It probably took me closer to 3 weeks to learn. I've heard it may help to keep the ace count in letters or a different language. I don't know of any good techniques other than just practice slowly and make your brain do it. It was a bit like bashing my head against the wall, but then one day it just clicked. T3 might have some good advice on how to keep a side count. He's pretty good at it.
I had a pack of cards that I would count down. Once I could do that, I'd start talking to someone while counting it down. Then I'd start playing out hands while keeping the count. Then I'd play someone while keeping it. I'd goto the casino close by and bet the 5$ minimum while trying to keep the count too. Eventually I got it.
If I had to do it over again, I would get the Casino Verite phone app early on and primarily practice that. I initially never invested in software because I thought it was a bit expensive for a hobby I wasn't sure I'd stick with. I don't have any magic tips or tricks.
I used the Zen Count for ten years but switched to Hi-Opt II in 1992.
I never looked back. I was able to turn full-time Pro with the enhanced earnings.
The transition from one to the other only took me a few days it is not difficult.
That was for the counting, fast and sure. Changing indices took a few more days.
The link to the indices Fenix has posted below are fine, BUT they are not risk-averse.
Last edited by ZenMaster_Flash; 01-29-2017 at 08:03 AM.
I had tried the Ace side count with AO2 for few weeks but error rate was high so I learned and using Zen now. I mostly play DD (pen ~70-75 cards, NSur, face down, DOA2, table min $25.00 max $2000.00, split 3 times [one place let you split Ace 3 times]) To my ability, I think I would mix up the tag value of the cards if I am learning new count and use Zen at table like Fenix did. I will give it a try and let you know.
Thanks
cc12b,
Most of the time you are seeing between 4 and 6 Aces in a DD Game, depending in part on the level of penetration.
Please describe your methodology in Side-Counting ACES.
You will see between 0 and 8 Aces.
Is 8 too high a number for you to handle?
Last edited by ZenMaster_Flash; 01-29-2017 at 07:59 AM.
trying to understand this. The decision to turn ro was based on the "enhanced earning", in effect the earnings were so enhanced by the switch from Zen to HO2 that it caused you to go full pro and had you not switched, you would still be a part-timerinteresting.
There is a lot more gained than just EV. With a better way of gathering information, information can be used in more intelligent ways to make you look stupid at little to no cost. The EV gain is actually the least important gain for the switch. Being able to play with a higher EV while being viewed as less of a threat is golden. It isn't just the count you use it is what you are able to a actually do with it. You could have 2 Hiopt2/ASC players in the same casino. One would easily fly undertake radar while the other gets picked off. The difference is one uses the count's information gathered to, at almost no cost, make himself look inept or non-threatening while the other plays optimally.
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