Accused of card counting without actually counting?

[njrich]

Interesting Doc on how they track your play and the software they use. Watch to the end If you haven't seen it already.
This is just part 3.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dkfYmG4AP0E

[SiMi]

Hey, JU

I agree with all you said.

Does anyone have a feel for how much can "safely" be written here? I've tried to be careful about details but it makes discussion much harder and stilted. It's hard to believe I'm going to come up with something that hasn't already been covered by the likes of Zender but why make it easier for the other side?

Maybe I'm just catching the paranoia from The Man at the stores...

[DBJT]

I personally know of a non-counter player, an acquaintance of mine's father, very wealthy guy, who I've tried for YEARS to convince to learn to COUNT CARDS... but who is strictly a crazy-ass gambler with way more money than sense, LOL

He's a Martingale progressionist and I personally saw him get backed off in Reno one time, for winning $10,000 in a weekend, using a $20,000 bankroll.

He plays a negative progression Martingale, "by the book" on ten dollar tables. He doubles bet after any loss, going from $10 to $20 to $50 to $100 to $200 to $500 to $1000 to the $2000 table max, sometimes even one more step to $5000 table max if they allow it.

Seriously, he plays this way "just for fun" and chases any ten buck loss all the way to hitting the table-limit brick wall, all the while religiously sticking to basic strategy with his doubles and splits, as needed, in any situation. Even if he has to draw a marker or make the table WAIT for a trip to the ATM machine to get the chips needed to make a double or split, he does it every time.

On this particular trip I was on with him, despite several near-misses almost wiping him out, he managed to get UP $10,000... and the casino backed him off for it. "No More Blackjack" sir... he was flabbergasted & pissed off, but they wouldn't budge.

True story.

Some casinos ARE that STUPID, srsly.

It's a mathematical fact that IF only they let him play long enough, they're guaranteed to get all his money... but some casinos really are just scared shítless, witless ignorant little girls, who cannot handle ANY "loss" at all.

-DBJT

[SiMi]

Hi, njrich

Thanks for the link! Very interesting....

At the 7:00 mark in the video, they show the software they use at Borgata in AC to track players. If they have your players card, this is, frankly, child's play for them. Once the software is written, it is deployed and used relentlessly, 24/7 to track everyone they can. (It's like the NSA but much easier to do!)

You can have the best act in the world but, if they can, they will track your play and the computer doesn't care a whit about your acting skills.

Maybe I'm missing something but it seems to me your best choices as a loner are to hide your winnings and/or remain anonymous as much as possible. You have to get creative...

Handing over ID in exchange for comps is not something I'm interested in because I'm not there for the comps. Most of the work/skill in counting is avoiding detection.

[moo321]

Walk into the El Cortez, raise your bet a few times when you see a bunch of low cards, and you'll see what it's like to get thrown out of a casino when you're not actually counting.

[Mr. White]

Home of the $25 "cheques play!"...

[redthetiger]

At the 6:06 mark of the video... "With professional cheaters, counters, and con-men stealing millions every year, casinos can never let down their guard". Sad to see National Geographic lump card counters in with cheats and insinuating that card counting is stealing.

And yeah, the $25 call out is ridiculous. I've seen someone put three greens out at that place and nothing is mentioned. Then later on I bet 5 red chips heads up and the dealer shouts cheques play as loud as they can. Lol.

[ZeeBabar]

[QUOTE=redthetiger;119527]At the 6:06 mark of the video... "With professional cheaters, counters, and con-men stealing millions every year, casinos can never let down their guard". Sad to see National Geographic lump card counters in with cheats and insinuating that card counting is stealing.

Well, if card counters proudly say, they do not gamble, then why the hell are you in a gambling establishment. Its sort of like someone who says, he is "not eating" and then going to an "all you can eat" buffet!!!

[JohnnyUtah]

Home of the $25 "cheques play!"...

"lol wut?!?!" was my reaction when I heard that when I played there this summer. El Cortez is also home of a very cute Cuban dealer that when I heard her accent for the first time, my heart melted and I was instantly in love, ha. Hearing how easy it is to get kicked out from there I'm actually offended that they didn't feel my skill level was worth booting (I was definitely counting and raising/lowering my bets, just not with an extreme spread or anything). Guess I need to work on my ($5 min!) double deck game more.

[bigplayer]

At the 7:00 mark in the video, they show the software they use at Borgata in AC to track players. If they have your players card, this is, frankly, child's play for them. Once the software is written, it is deployed and used relentlessly, 24/7 to track everyone they can. (It's like the NSA but much easier to do!)

Smart counters already do things that defeat this type of software. They rathole chips to keep their player profile that of a loser, they don't give out phone numbers, they use phony names, phony addresses, phony everything. They use alternative strategies mixed with counting that makes computerized evaluation incapable of making a determination. What's left? Casinos throwing out people who hunch bet and get lucky, casinos throwing out people playing basic strategy and using good money management. Most counters who get caught are not caught because the casino figured out the play, they are caught because of poor casino comportment or a bad act or because someone recognized them. If you have a good act, can change your look, network with other players, let the casino book wins against you, avoid hard targets, target games that allow polite playing styles, and don't give the casino any single sample size large enough to determine anything and casinos have a very tough time figuring out what you are doing.

[muckz]

How would rathole chips stop software? Wouldn't it already know how much you bought in, lost, and won?

[njrich]

How would rathole chips stop software?

Someone has to input the data usually the floor person.

[lilbucky]

I'm sorry but I can't be the only one who read OP and thought "what a great idea and series of posts if OP is actually counting cards and knows the PCs read this forum."

Anyway if you know basic already you can learn a basic count in only a little more time than it took you to learn basic. Might as well.

I wasn't aware that casinos (PCs?) read this forum, but I would imagine that if the surveillance people or whoever cannot find a tape to look at the shoes and betting pattern, I doubt they are really spending time reading this forum. I'm also not really going back there so it doesn't really matter.

I don't think I'd have trouble learning counting, it just doesn't seem much fun to me if I'm spending the entire time worrying about counting and worrying about getting caught on top of that. The losses in gambling for me are really just an expense for the entertainment; same as going to a football game.