He's not an advantage player. The card and its benefits are the only advantage he has. Why are you advising this course of action.Originally Posted by SiMi
I have had many back offs of varying degrees over the years and card counting was almost never mentioned. Is it just me? Of course, I don't engage them in conversation at that point but it seems that they go out of their way not to mention it.
Last edited by paymypush; 12-17-2013 at 05:40 PM.
Actually I know a basic strategy player who got backed off after he won 40k in one night and also know several people who just for being regulars at the same place receive virtually no comps at all.....apparently because the casino knows that they will be there several times a week anyway so why send them any free money. They still receive buffets and food comps if asked for, but are sent nothing at all in the mail. This is not a hole in the wall casino either....they have some pretty big action here.
This is utter crap! If you're playing a losing game why would you not want comps?
"One of these days in your travels, you are going to come across a guy with a nice brand new deck of cards, and this guy is going to offer to bet you that he can make the Jack of Spades jump out of the deck and squirt cider in your ear. But, son, do not take this bet, for if you do, as sure as you are standing there, you are going to end up with an ear full of cider."
The man was not accussing you of cheating, it sounds like he ASSummed that you were card counting. I don't see card counting as cheating or a crime. You should not have gotten pissed off at the moron. In fact you should have told him to go F himself in a nice manner.
Last edited by Blitzkrieg; 12-17-2013 at 05:17 PM. Reason: typo
I'm sorry but I can't be the only one who read OP and thought "what a great idea and series of posts if OP is actually counting cards and knows the PCs read this forum."
Anyway if you know basic already you can learn a basic count in only a little more time than it took you to learn basic. Might as well.
T3
Some people like to GAMBLE and find it entertaining even though they are not an AP. They do not GAMBLE for the comps but for the fun of it. If they get backed off, they lose that fun. Again, the Casinos that do this are run by paranoid morons but it seems to be very common today.
I suggested this guy find ways to look like a loser because he got backed off due to winnings. They used the info gleaned from the players card to back him off. If he had not given them the card or had disguised his winnings, he would not be backed off and he'd still be playing and having fun.
The point is that they THINK he's a counter because he's winning. The fact that they're wrong is not relevant. He's backed off and he can't fix that now, even if he's telling the truth about not counting.
If you're a regular degenerate or a winner, the comps will die out. You need to disguise your winnings if you're winning that big whether you're a counter or not.
Also, for others reading this, it's worth considering whether you want to get rated at your local store. If you're not a loser and you're a regular, it's likely the comps you thought you'd get will dry up leaving you with nothing after giving yet another business your personal information.
Most Casinos are PARANOID about counters. It's ridiculous, but that's the case. Even non-counters will be backed off if they win on the assumption they MUST be doing something sneaky. Zender is the only person on the Casino side who seems to understand that counters actually HELP Casinos more than they hurt.
Last edited by SiMi; 12-18-2013 at 06:01 AM.
I remember playing a couple times as a plop with someone that would spread his bets huge and played basic, but was probably betting slightly opposite of the count if they ever actually looked. Now that I think about it there was always heat at the table and we would even joke about counting at the table which probably made things worse. Actually counting I would have realized these things right away but back then it never occurred to me. One thing I will say though is that except for the most grindy low stakes joints around usually someone familiar with counting has to evaluate your play before an actual backoff, which usually wont happen until you show a decent lifetime win. But they can try all sorts of heat before that.
I always play rated except at one store that the comps really suck. I have not been backed off except in Vegas. Once for BJ and twice for dice control. You simply have to understand the casino choke points for spread, top bet, session win, regularity of visits and total win. There are lots of casinos to spread your time around to in order to remain within what the casinos are comfortable with while playing as much as you want. I have had a few times where the casino used subtle hints that it was time to end my session. When I went back it was the same conditions as prior to the hint that they were no longer comfortable with me continuing my session.
Hi T3
For the OP, there are apparently NOT "lots of Casinos" around where he lives in MN, as bigplayer noted. In that case, you cannot "spread your time around" to avoid the choke points.
At a local store, you cannot appear to be a consistent, big winner or you will be backed off. The OP seemed sincere to me and I took him at face value that he was NOT counting but still got backed off and was unhappy about it because he ENJOYED playing at that local store. I can relate, so I suggested he figure out ways to APPEAR to be a typical degenerate loser. I don't think he's mainly after comps (and it won't matter anyway if he's a regular) and it's pretty clear he's not playing in Vegas where it's all different and Max Rubin's Comp City applies.
If lilB is still reading this, I think I'd stay away for several months and work on ways to hide winnings while you're away. Then, whether you go back as an AP or not, the heat will probably have died down and you can play again (lower stakes is a good idea for these small stores-save the big bets for Vegas once or twice a year) and have some fun. You might even be able to get away without giving them your players card, but I doubt it unless you take more drastic measures.
When you're ahead, hide that fact and do NOT let them know you're still hot. Whether you're counting or not, at a local store, you need to appear to be a loser or VERY small winner. NO THREAT!
One thing OP should try doing is rat-holing chips to look like a break even player (or slight winner/loser). When I'm up a big amount, I wait for moments where the pit/dealer are distracted and cup a few chips and slip them into my pocket. I regularly cash out chips on short restroom breaks etc so they don't see a $2k win cashout at the end of the night. Just last weekend at one table I bought in with $600 and colored up my remaining $200 after a couple hours but had $1100 of greens/blacks/hundos I cashed out on breaks in my pocket. Hope they chalked me up for the $400 loss! (I play rated there.)
Vaya con Dios...
I know this sort of thing has happened before, but the fact that the paranoia of the industry has pushed an average, long term losing player to come here and receive advice on camouflage and heat avoidance is.... just...wow.
Karma now dictates that you use the spare time alloted to you from your casino-imposed casino sabattical to learn techniques to beat the casino.
Sorry man, it's nothing to do if you're interested in it or not. Don't go screwing with karma...
"I did it for me..... I liked it. I was good at it...and I was...really...I was alive..."
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