Soft Hand Double Down Questions

[ZenMaster_Flash]

"The deviations for A,9 doubles arent listed."

The indices for doubling "Soft 20" (Ace-9) is generally identical to that of splitting Face Cards.

Note: Splitting Face Cards is forbidden in the state of New Jersey.

[DSchles]

"Note: Splitting Face Cards is forbidden in the state of New Jersey."

Since when??

Don

[BJGenius007]

The indices for doubling "Soft 20" (Ace-9) is generally identical to that of splitting Face Cards.

Note: Splitting Face Cards is forbidden in the state of New Jersey.

Yeah. And the index of doubling A8 against 5 or 6 is +1. (Assuming TC is derived from RC dividing the number of half-decks for level 2 system).

[Bushie]

Yeah. And the index of doubling A8 against 5 or 6 is +1. (Assuming TC is derived from RC dividing the number of half-decks for level 2 system).

It's higher than that. I'm not sure if I should post the listed index number here for the game's security, but it's higher than +1 for SP21/Pontoon when using a level 2 count (modified SMC in this case).

Like Zen said, it makes sense that the index should be a little lower when doubling A9, and the split 10,10 index is about right, if not a blip higher than the standard split 10s index (which requires a MONUMENTAL count in SP21/Pontoon btw).

[BJGenius007]

It's higher than that. I'm not sure if I should post the listed index number here for the game's security, but it's higher than +1 for SP21/Pontoon when using a level 2 count (modified SMC in this case).

Like Zen said, it makes sense that the index should be a little lower when doubling A9, and the split 10,10 index is about right, if not a blip higher than the standard split 10s index (which requires a MONUMENTAL count in SP21/Pontoon btw).

Nope. A8 v 5/6 double is the best double, of all non-BS double. You only need TC +1 to do that. 8 v 6, you need TC +2. 8 v 5, you need TC +3. (Assuming TC is calculated by the number of half-decks. So for 6D, initially you divide RC by 12. I do so to make level 1 and level 2 counting systems to have similar and comparable indexes.)

[Bushie]

Nope. A8 v 5/6 double is the best double, of all non-BS double. You only need TC +1 to do that. 8 v 6, you need TC +2. 8 v 5, you need TC +3. (Assuming TC is calculated by the number of half-decks. So for 6D, initially you divide RC by 12. I do so to make level 1 and level 2 counting systems to have similar and comparable indexes.)

Not correct, as you go by the composition of the hand rather than the actual value. In Pontoon, 9 v 5 double, as in a 9 total NOT consisting of an ace, is +1. That is for a level 2 balanced count such as SMC. 8 v 6 I'm not sure about, but the 9 v 4 double is +4 which would probably make a 8 v 5/6 index very high I'd assume. And besides, you can't double on 8 with the rules I listed anyway and there's no indices listed for it either.

Edit: actually, I played it tonight and you can double on any hand. Hmm..

[BJGenius007]

Not correct, as you go by the composition of the hand rather than the actual value. In Pontoon, 9 v 5 double, as in a 9 total NOT consisting of an ace, is +1. That is for a level 2 balanced count such as SMC. 8 v 6 I'm not sure about, but the 9 v 4 double is +4 which would probably make a 8 v 5/6 index very high I'd assume. And besides, you can't double on 8 with the rules I listed anyway and there's no indices listed for it either.

Edit: actually, I played it tonight and you can double on any hand. Hmm..

Pontoon is another game, not Blackjack.

[Bushie]

Pontoon is another game, not Blackjack.

It's a variant, with Pontoon actually just being the non-patented version of SP21 with NHC and some minor rule variations.

I thought it was clear what I was talking about, with it being mentioned in the OP and all that..

[BJGenius007]

It's a variant, with Pontoon ...

Pontoon is not a Blackjack variant. It is another game.

[Norm]

Pontoon is not a Blackjack variant. It is another game.

I really wouldn't put it that way. I list over 100 rule variations in blackjack on this site. I have fallen behind in that effort as we are probably nearing 200 by now. BJ and Pontoon/SP21 strategies are developed in the same manners, share the most important rules, share the most important concepts, can even use the same counting strategies with minor alterations. When it comes to actual playing strategies, I could argue that the differences between how you approach single-deck and multi-deck blackjack play are as different as how you approach typical blackjack and Pontoon.

Also realize, that the starting pointing in analyzing a new game for opportunities is to look at a related game. Pontoon has the exact same weaknesses as BJ.

But then, I have called single-deck BJ a different game.

[BJGenius007]

I really wouldn't put it that way. I list over 100 rule variations in blackjack on this site. I have fallen behind in that effort as we are probably nearing 200 by now. BJ and Pontoon/SP21 strategies are developed in the same manners, share the most important rules, share the most important concepts, can even use the same counting strategies with minor alterations. When it comes to actual playing strategies, I could argue that the differences between how you approach single-deck and multi-deck blackjack play are as different as how you approach typical blackjack and Pontoon.

Also realize, that the starting pointing in analyzing a new game for opportunities is to look at a related game. Pontoon has the exact same weaknesses as BJ.

But then, I have called single-deck BJ a different game.

Many new players don't understand the complexity of Pontoon and its own many variations. If told this is just another Blackjack, many just use the existent Blackjack indexes and failed miserably. Better define Pontoon in the new category.