Level 1 count versus Level 2 count

[BoSox]

We should counsel new players that the path to Pro should include a step wise progression through some simpler count. There is as much to learn about AP beside counting and walking before you run supports that needed experience.

Probably ZenMaster_Flash would disagree!

If history shows anything, without a doubt, ZMF, would in fact disagree. After decades of holding steadfast, and him taking a stand on this opinion, has always left me baffled and bewildered. Considering ZMF, has learned, and taken a very real slow road to gaming success "time consumed" as anyone could possibly have imagined, that evidently, he has either completely blocked from his mind, or does not want someone possibly doing the same type thing. Only what he neglects to mention is that his early years involved other forms of gambling for him and very little, "if any" blackjack, at all.

[seriousplayer]

If history shows anything, without a doubt, ZMF, would in fact disagree. After decades of holding steadfast, and him taking a stand on this opinion, has always left me baffled and bewildered. Considering ZMF, has learned, and taken a very real slow road to gaming success "time consumed" as anyone could possibly have imagined, that evidently, he has either completely blocked from his mind, or does not want someone possibly doing the same type thing. Only what he neglects to mention is that his early years involved other forms of gambling for him and very little, "if any" blackjack, at all.

I learn through life experience. I do what works and eliminate what does not work. I don't like to make mistakes when it come to blackjack. So I work on perfecting my games first before moving to a move advanced strategy. You can't be making counting mistakes once every shoes with Hi-opt 2. That is just too much. How you prefect that is what matters.

[ZenMaster_Flash]

Originally Posted by seriousplayer
Probably ZenMaster_Flash would disagree!

Here is a none-too-succinct comment:

I have high-level respect for Stealth, who I have met.

I have mentored many in Hi-Opt II - and I still do.

In the last fewdays I was in 3 different states and I met up

with a regular poster, who experienced the "usual" and wanted

to meet me, buy me a fine dinner and "pick my brains" face to face.

The "usual" is an occasional poster on this forum who has (severely)

limited, (if any), success with a Level One count, generally Hi-Lo.

I had mentored him in Hi-Opt II. He and his spouse had been playing

professionally since and had earnings slightly above expectation.

We were soon joined by a close friend who I had trained intensively

allowing him to turn Pro two years ago. He is one of the brightest full-time

A.P.s and I laughingly call him "His Excellence, the Excel Master."

I have had this (virtually) identical scenario develop roughly 8 to 12

times in the last decade. Included in this semi-outlaw coterie of mine

(and found on this forum) is a humble woman who I rank as the overall

strongest BJ Player that I have ever trained, effortlessly surpassing my skill

level in a twinkling. Her camouflage, her cover, her casino comportment is

"second to none" myself specifically included. As females are a minuscule

minority among A.P.s she wisely does not divulge her gender online.

Most amateur Card Counters readily swallow what I refer to as the "Hi-Lo

Party-Line" In training, I often have the student play BJ using their Level

One count while I am simultaneously dealing and counting with Hi-Opt II.

I would be dealing the game H17 2 decks DAS 90% pen. Our betting and

our plays were sometimes only slightly different, but frequently they were

drastically divergent. Bet-sizing was always a shock as the Hi-Lo

betting was 'good' about 1/2 the time, but 1/4 of the time it resulted

in overbetting, (increasing variance) and 1/4 of the time it led to under-

betting ("leaving money on the table".) This inherent inaccuracy is the

direct result of ignoring the diverse E.O.R. of the low card ranks.

Hi-Lo groups Faces with Aces and that has only mild effects on

bet sizing, but it has a dramatic effect on playing indices. This is

especially noteworthy when contemplating doubling a hand where

Aces are a low card as is so with an 11 or a soft hand.

With Hi-Opt II my plays of several important hands are adjusted

by the Ace Side Count. Most notable are doubling with hard 10 or 11.

Splitting 9's vs the dealer Ace or the dealerSevenare very interesting.

For the former hand matchup, the T.C. adjustment is an amazing +/- 6

to the Running Count (equivalent to 3 face cards) for Surplus / Deficit Aces.

For thelatter it is +/- 4. I love splitting 9's vs. a dealer Ace!

The density of Aces also adjusts my True Count for Insurance purposes,

making the always important Insurance decision extremely accurate.

Particularly in Double Deck games, my Playing Efficiency is VERY high as I

have an extensive list of playing adjustments Re: the density of sevens (7's)

Half of all your hands are stiffs. Sevens are often crucially important,

especially when the dealer is displaying a 9 or 8 as those matchups

create Sevens (7's) that are "Key Cards" as the Sevens simultaneously

help you and can render the dealer's potential 'made' hand into a "stiff."

Peter Griffin's (The Theory of Blackjack, 6th ed.) explores the value

added by tracking the 7's.

I do not utilize a Seven side-count in shoe games due to diminishing

returns because of the dilution of the effects caused by multiple decks.

[BoSox]

I have mentored many in Hi-Opt II - and I still do.

In the last fewdays I was in 3 different states and I met up

with a regular poster, who experienced the "usual" and wanted

to meet me, buy me a fine dinner and "pick my brains" face to face.

The "usual" is an occasional poster on this forum who has (severely)

limited, (if any), success with a Level One count, generally Hi-Lo.

I had mentored him in Hi-Opt II. He and his spouse had been playing

professionally since and had earnings slightly above expectation.

We were soon joined by a close friend who I had trained intensively

allowing him to turn Pro two years ago. He is one of the brightest full-time

A.P.s and I laughingly call him "His Excellence, the Excel Master."

I have had this (virtually) identical scenario develop roughly 8 to 12

times in the last decade.

All due respect ZenMaster_Flash, all you ever advertise to new perspective students, and this board is your prior success stories. In this instance you mention people whom you trained such as His Excellence, the Excel Master. You continue with saying "I have had this (virtually) identical scenario develop roughly 8 to 12 times in the last decade." they often turn professional. The problem with all of this is you NEVER EVER talk about the failures as giving the implication there never is any. These are the very same people that lets use your words:

The "usual" is an occasional poster on this forum who has (severely)

limited, (if any), success with a Level One count, generally Hi-Lo.

Most amateur Card Counters readily swallow what I refer to as the "Hi-Lo

Party-Line" In training, I often have the student play BJ using their Level

So evidently you want everyone to believe that you take those players who are having difficulties with using level one counts, with limited if any success, and literally turn them into money making machines. Well please pardon my apprehension, as I tend to be skeptical when I only hear one side of the story.

[ZenMaster_Flash]

Bosox,

I estimate that > 80% fail. Those who
failed lacked one or more crucial factors,
... ... study skills, sobriety, dedication,
emotional stability, patience, etc. I have
(attempted to) mentor perhaps 60 peeps.

"Many are called. Few are chosen."

[BoSox]

Bosox,

I estimate that > 80% fail. Those who
failed lacked one or more crucial factors,
... ... study skills, sobriety, dedication,
emotional stability, patience, etc. I have
(attempted to) mentor perhaps 60 peeps.

"Many are called. Few are chosen."

Thank you!

[BoSox]

Bosox,

I estimate that > 80% fail. Those who
failed lacked one or more crucial factors,
... ... study skills, sobriety, dedication,
emotional stability, patience, etc.

I would like to add, those are some of the very same reasons, players often fail with their level one counts.

[21forme]

I would like to add, those are some of the very same reasons, players often fail with their level one counts.

The important take-away from this is if you can't make it work with a L1 count, don't delude yourself into thinking you can change things with a L2 count.

[Freightman]

The important take-away from this is if you can't make it work with a L1 count, don't delude yourself into thinking you can change things with a L2 count.

Judgement, regardless of count system. I know some very good counters using hi lo system, who have no interest in halves, and aren't interested, in the least, in using hi opt 2.