+EV machine -- How can this exist?

[mathbandit]

..

[BJGenius007]

I found a bj game (machine) that has rules that straight up give the player (playing perfect strategy) an edge. This isnt that post where i see "2 for 1 bj" and think im getting 2 to 1. No, this is a legit 3:2 bj machine that gives the player an edge. It shuffles every hand, so no counting is involved.

How can a casino offer a game where the player has an edge every single hand? Side note, Their video poker rules are terrible so they arent ignorant to pay tables, at least in video poker.

Now, im sure they are making money still from all the bad players, as perfect strategy in this particular game is somewhat complex. But i cant understand that this casino can think that this game holds X percent when in reality they are losing money to the pros.

(By the way, i have a HUGE sample size -- multiple millions -- and results can confirm the rules.)

You can post the rules here and let us decide if it is really +ev like you said.

[Old, but not dead]

Depending on how big the Player Edge is in the game, the house is probably holding a good percentage. Between bad players, mistakes, overtired and underfunded players they are probably doing OK. If not expect the machine to quickly be removed or have the rules/paytable adjusted.

[nighterfighter]

I found a bj game (machine) that has rules that straight up give the player (playing perfect strategy) an edge. This isnt that post where i see "2 for 1 bj" and think im getting 2 to 1. No, this is a legit 3:2 bj machine that gives the player an edge. It shuffles every hand, so no counting is involved.

How can a casino offer a game where the player has an edge every single hand? Side note, Their video poker rules are terrible so they arent ignorant to pay tables, at least in video poker.

Now, im sure they are making money still from all the bad players, as perfect strategy in this particular game is somewhat complex. But i cant understand that this casino can think that this game holds X percent when in reality they are losing money to the pros.

(By the way, i have a HUGE sample size -- multiple millions -- and results can confirm the rules.)

How complex can the rules be, it's just basic strategy since it's shuffled every hand?

I imagine the house is still raking it in with the side bets on the game, if they exist.

Also are you sure it's not more of a slot machine type of game, where the paytable is still fixed to have a house edge? (Meaning the cards in this case wouldn't be truly random)

If you're sure, then you should be playing with a players card as long as you can every day.

[RS]

They exist because most players are terrible at the game. Generally, those who are funded and have the knowledge to beat the game, are off playing better games.

[mathbandit]

They exist because most players are terrible at the game. Generally, those who are funded and have the knowledge to beat the game, are off playing better games.

Thank you for actually addressing my question. But, most players are terrible at bj in, for example las vegas, yet the 6 to 5 games are overpopulating the strip.

Why have a game that is so good for the player? Ploppies will play games just as much that are much worse.

To the Other comments, yes the game is +ev; however, It is very small. I do not wish to post the exact rules.

[mathbandit]

How complex can the rules be, it's just basic strategy since it's shuffled every hand?

I imagine the house is still raking it in with the side bets on the game, if they exist.

Also are you sure it's not more of a slot machine type of game, where the paytable is still fixed to have a house edge? (Meaning the cards in this case wouldn't be truly random)

If you're sure, then you should be playing with a players card as long as you can every day.

My results after millions of hands can conclude that the player edge exists.

[mathbandit]

If we do not know the rules of the game, then it is not possible to determine whether or not there is any positive EV. Bullshitometer just alerteted.

I do not wish to name the rules as it might give away the game. But what does it matter, i found a game that is +ev and ask the pros how can this exist? Maybe it doesnt exist. But if it did, why would a casino offer it? Seems too good to be true eh?

[ShipTheCookies]

Same reason full pay deuces wild and a few other +EV VP games still exists. As mentioned above, because most players are bad at it.

[RCJH]

I found a bj game (machine) that has rules that straight up give the player (playing perfect strategy) an edge. This isnt that post where i see "2 for 1 bj" and think im getting 2 to 1. No, this is a legit 3:2 bj machine that gives the player an edge. It shuffles every hand, so no counting is involved.

How can a casino offer a game where the player has an edge every single hand? Side note, Their video poker rules are terrible so they arent ignorant to pay tables, at least in video poker.

Now, im sure they are making money still from all the bad players, as perfect strategy in this particular game is somewhat complex. But i cant understand that this casino can think that this game holds X percent when in reality they are losing money to the pros.

(By the way, i have a HUGE sample size -- multiple millions -- and results can confirm the rules.)

There are +EV machines, yes. You have found one. I suspect several of us know what you've found.

BUT, just because it's +EV, that doesn't mean you'll win. How many +EV situations have you been in, and still lost? Not everyone is going to win every time.

Second, the hold is probably offset by horrible and popular games out there. So any casino can offer a game that's 1-2% positive, and still remain profitable, as long as the masses are pounding away on Goonies and OMG Puppies.

Third, have you considered that if everyone ran to this game and started playing it what might happen? You've burned your own play. This is why you keep this stuff quiet. I'm not worried about this machine, it's tedious and borning, and minimally profitable. You have to consider your time. Is it worth it in $/hr to mess with it? Probably not, really. But when you find a unicorn, you don't tell the world.

[RS]

Thank you for actually addressing my question. But, most players are terrible at bj in, for example las vegas, yet the 6 to 5 games are overpopulating the strip.

Why have a game that is so good for the player? Ploppies will play games just as much that are much worse.

To the Other comments, yes the game is +ev; however, It is very small. I do not wish to post the exact rules.

Nowadays, I’m not so sure, especially since they don’t advertise it. At least the place that I know does (or die) have it didn’t advertise it. But places at least used to advertise 100%+ machines. Some still do, but it doesn’t seem too common anymore. Idea is to get people in to play it (even though they’re bad at playing it) with the hope they’ll play other games with a significant house edge.

Without advertising, I’m not so sure. But my guess is the attitude might be something like — they’ve had those games for forever so why switch them out?

[BankerCA]

Why have a game that is so good for the player? Ploppies will play games just as much that are much worse.

Give and Take. Every machine in a casino can not have a 15% edge. The average ploppie machine player will come into a casino with a set amount of money, lets say $200. The casino rather have that $200 last 2 hours vs. lasting 20 minutes. Knowing the average ploppie will play until their money runs out, they just prefer it to last longer. They find that delicate balance. Remember, casinos are in the entertainment business. The more entertainment players get the happier they are.

[Stealth]

Now, im sure they are making money still from all the bad players, as perfect strategy in this particular game is somewhat complex. But i cant understand that this casino can think that this game holds X percent when in reality they are losing money to the pros.

(By the way, i have a HUGE sample size -- multiple millions -- and results can confirm the rules.)

We played a BJ machine with a .17% edge ASSUMING WE PLAY PERFECT TAILORED BASIC!

Few people play perfect basic, much less a modified basic to fit the machine, it is much more likely that the population is playing at 2+% HE which will generate casino revenue.

Also, I expect bet levels stifle much of the advantage and thereby requires long sessions to obtain s moderate gain.