Learning about side counts

[Three]

And where is it or is just you?

A programming genius read about my ideas and offered to write a simulator to see how much was there.

[Eye of the Eagle]

A programming genius read about my ideas and offered to write a simulator to see how much was there.

So we will be seeing some results from this sim or are you just blowing smoking up are asses?

[Eye of the Eagle]

I happen to know the guy as well who has done some great things for me. T3 is the real deal in my opinion. I'd be shocked to learn he was some geeky, eggheaded, computer nerd who was making stuff up for sport. As for blowing smoke? He doesn't owe anyone anything. From what little I do know I think he's made something more complex than it needs to be.

Is this is a site where people only believe in the math? I have seen people get shot down if they do not have any facts to back up their claim. When there is no proof to back up his claim of this super count it can be consider VOODOO. If you can't sim it a couple of million times it's VOODOO. I don't know how long he has been using this super count. Maybe he is just on the right side of variance with this super count. He could just be lucky. I think we have all seen lucky people at the casino. Without any math to back up his claims it's nothing but luck or VOODOO.

[Norm]

Hole-carding was highly profitable before any sims were done.

[Eye of the Eagle]

[QUOTE=Norm;195932]Hole-carding was highly profitable before any sims were done.[/QUOTE

The proof with that is in the eye. You are grabbing at straws. Maybe we should go back to BJ Genuis theory?

[LoneWoLF]

What you super side counters dont understand, is the sim is not the real world. Arnold snyder already debunked this as well. First off, you cant estimate to the exact card like sims do so there goes that EV. Secondly estimating to quarter decks for ace neutral strategies or single denomiation cards like a 7 wont be as exact as the sims, so you're already giving up more EV right there. Thirdly, and most importantly is that human shuffling is not like simulation shuffling. In the real world, there are clumps and imprecise riffles. So there goes whatever extra EV you have left and you're back to a level 1 count. Because of all of this multi level counts are obsolete for the shoe game. Pitch game different story, like i have said millions of times. Wake up kids

[Eye of the Eagle]

What you super side counters dont understand, is the sim is not the real world. Arnold snyder already debunked this as well. First off, you cant estimate to the exact card like sims do so there goes that EV. Secondly estimating to quarter decks for ace neutral strategies or single denomiation cards like a 7 wont be as exact as the sims, so you're already giving up more EV right there. Thirdly, and most importantly is that human shuffling is not like simulation shuffling. In the real world, there are clumps and imprecise riffles. So there goes whatever extra EV you have left and you're back to a level 1 count. Because of all of this multi level counts are obsolete for the shoe game. Pitch game different story, like i have said millions of times. Wake up kids

I agree nobody can play like a computer. Everyone will make a mistake sooner or later and you won't even realize it. We aren't computers.

[Norm]

First off, you cant estimate to the exact card like sims do so there goes that EV.

I almost never sim to exact card. CVData and CVCX have many parameters to specify deck estimation.

Secondly estimating to quarter decks for ace neutral strategies or single denomiation cards like a 7 wont be as exact as the sims, so you're already giving up more EV right there.

CVData/CVCX have many such parameters in this area.

Thirdly, and most importantly is that human shuffling is not like simulation shuffling. In the real world, there are clumps and imprecise riffles. So there goes whatever extra EV you have left and you're back to a level 1 count.

CVData allows you to configure real casino shuffles, including minor details. You can even simulate the varying riffle precision as the angle of the cards against the dealer's thumb varies during a riffle. BUT, it has been shown that random simulation is every bit as accurate unless the shuffle is seriously bad.

I agree nobody can play like a computer. Everyone will make a mistake sooner or later and you won't even realize it. We aren't computers.

CVData allows the simulation of several kinds of errors.

Because of all of this multi level counts are obsolete for the shoe game. Pitch game different story, like i have said millions of times. Wake up kids

You are reading an ages old article by a person that doesn't personally run sims. I really wish people would stop assuming that all sim software is incompetently constructed. Simulators are used to simulate dams, airplanes, nuclear reactors, fluids moving through pipes, high-rises in hurricanes. The Mars landing would not have been possible without simulations. Do you really believe a card game can't be simulated?

[Ryemo]

Good point. I would love to see a sim broken by sessions with rules of thumb exactly the way I play in a casino. Reviewing the hands would be like watchinggames films to improve. Lets get 10 guys to Play out 10k hands exactly the way Tarzan plays in a casino. Then we could begin to see the value of which he speaks.

Do you really think the results of playing out 10,000 hands will have any meaningful value? Assuming you're getting dealt 100/hpr on average, that's only 100 hours worth of play. ANYTHING can happen within 100 hrs of play. Maybe 100,000 hands, and you're on to something...

[Ryemo]

In single deck straight up there is no question in my mind. But in Tarzan's case I said 10 guys at 10k each which would be 100k hands and we would begin to have some sort of understanding. Currently, it's like basing ones faith on hearsay.

Yes. In a single deck game, the N0 will be reached much quicker. Unfortunately, good single deck games aren't easy to come by.

And maybe I misunderstood. I thought you meant to have 10 people using different counts (one of them being the Tarzan count), to see how they perform against each other.

[Villiam]

It's not good or bad. But it is tough to navigate.

[Eye of the Eagle]

CVData allows the simulation of several kinds of errors.[/QUOTE]

I know that Norm I have your software. But playing in real life is different then playing on a computer. I realize you can put in the number of mistakes that you want. But in real life you don't know how many mistakes you are going to make.

[Eye of the Eagle]

Good point. I would love to see a sim broken by sessions with rules of thumb exactly the way I play in a casino. Reviewing the hands would be like watchinggames films to improve. Lets get 10 guys to Play out 10k hands exactly the way Tarzan plays in a casino. Then we could begin to see the value of which he speaks.

Here is one for you. I played 2,500 hands on Norms software and won a $1,000,000 dollars. I followed no rules or count. Split 2's against 10 and any other thing that you could imagine. Split 10's and draw Ace for 21 or 11 naturally you doubledown. I wonder what would happen in real life. I know what would happen you would be broke.