hi i'm going to vegas soon and new to this comp thing. would any of these two spreads ''fool'' anyone? if not why? or can i get away with bigger spreads? thanks edit: BTW i have no idea if this spread makes any sense or not.
comps1.jpg
comps2.jpg
hi i'm going to vegas soon and new to this comp thing. would any of these two spreads ''fool'' anyone? if not why? or can i get away with bigger spreads? thanks edit: BTW i have no idea if this spread makes any sense or not.
comps1.jpg
comps2.jpg
Last edited by realestate; 07-28-2015 at 10:10 PM.
You don't get much comps for BJ. If you are a fresh face you may get rated an unskilled player for a while but once your rated skilled player the comps will be fairly meaningless. It is better to earn comps at other games. If you fool anyone it is because you have no history. Your comp is based on a combination of your play and your skill rating. If you have a history of playing a decent game the comps will suck. If you fancy earning comps from BJ keep some casinos so that they have no history of you playing a strong game. The rating is all from the suits on the floor (unless your play is reviewed). They are pretty busy so doing some stupid plays at the appropriate time (they are watching you for the moment) can go a long way toward keeping the idiot skill rating.
Very true. Doing things at the right time when you know you're being watched either by the pit, or by the eye in the sky can have a long lasting affect. I have a store that has me down as an "average to below average" BJ player in their comp system. Meanwhile I am banned from playing blackjack in the entire country under my real name.Originally Posted by Tthree
Last edited by WABJ11; 07-28-2015 at 06:41 PM.
Almost any other game will earn decent comps. My strategy for comp whoring is to try to play a game that doesn't lose much. Usually a progression designed to make a tiny profit without too much risk is a good choice. Oscars grind comes to mind. I also use a modified cancellation progression. The main thing is not to lose much. Set a limit. If the progression goes bad you might not show much play but you may play all weekend without much worry. Just remember the goal is not to win but to not lose much. If you win a bunch in the process more power to you. Craps is a good comp grifting game. A number of low edge bets to choose from and you don't need to bet on every roll to get your rating. Many players will call their action "off" if they aren't winning. Of course pass or come bets are always working. Some players count a few rolls after the come out before placing bets. The combination of a slow game and not risking your average bet constantly works to help earn better comps at the same risk. Unlike in BJ where you are trying to make money with AP play you want a slow game. You don't have an advantage. A full table with lots of prop bettors is usually pretty slow. Baccarat and its variants are slow games especially when the players handle the cards with low HE. Some machine play is plus EV. The best playback are often high denomination machines. VP are better for mailers than comps and require knowing the correct strategy for the game. Some of the BJ variants will earn you decent comps but BS tends to be much harder than BJ.
DD H17 DAS with 50% penetration is a VERY BAD game. I would not play this game as you will get very few high count opportunity's.
And then how do you backcount -3 on DD with 50% penetration?
At the unit you are using, I suggest you go to high limit rooms for better rules like S17 DAS, Sr and 75% penetration.
Usually need 1X6 spread to beat DD and you might need more than that to beat the games shown.
If you are after comps, try cross betting craps, but it takes three people to be effective. one (looking for comps) bets big on the "don't" and the other two split his action on the "pass".
Good luck.
Luck is nothing more than probability taken personally!
i am OK with playing a bad game since im just looking for comps. i put backcount at -3 so i can just go to bathroom or take a break. i would like to go into HL room, but I'm afraid they will not take 1-6 too well, or would they? I have no clue. this is a big vegas casino FWIW
Last edited by realestate; 07-28-2015 at 09:54 PM.
hmmmmmmmm maybe i am approaching this the wrong way. i just read comp city and assumed that BJ should be the main game. but like the other slighly -EV games, I am OK with playing a slightly -EV BJ game i guess. i think its around $200/hand for 4 hours for a room comp for BJ. how much do i have to bet on craps for a room comp?
I played 100-500 at Aria for 3 hours my offers were like 79 midweek. BJ gets you nothing for comps although there are some exceptions...the big problem is that if you work them hard for comps, that is when they will actually pay attention to your skill level...you will be "Average" until then...
That said, those variant games like spanish 21 can get you some huge huge comps early on. At another store the same sort of heavy green-black spread was getting me 50 an hour just in comps that I could use for free play, plus mailers and tourney invites, plus I was a favorite on the game anyway. I would walk in the door up 5-6 hours worth of EV if I had spread 1-24 with way less heat and also got very solid comps. It was wayyyy better than just regular counting. Sadly they eventually cut my rating way down although I still get some pretty good mailers from there. At another store I played spanish 21 and lost 3k in only 2 shoes. I then got a mailer with 250 match plays 3x a week plus some ok other stuff that would really add to EV. Another game that can be good is Ultimate Texas Hold'Em. Most people are simply atrocious at this game, seriously they are like 10-15+% losers and get rated as such. It's also very slow.
The best advice at all is to find the stores that still give good offers for high paying 99+ VP like 9/6 JOB, 8/5 BP, NSU Deuces, even 99% 25/15/9/4/4 deuces wild. Unfortunately these places are too rare and valuable, I only know a half dozen and I have played around the country...you will just have to find them yourself!
Last edited by biggg; 07-29-2015 at 01:12 AM.
This is a very wise advice. Sometimes people playing for comps can get caught up in the moment and begin to chase, and what began as playing for comps has turned into chasing back your retirement fund. Remember that if your playing for comps, you are playing an -EV game, and you will lose; it is inevitable. Albeit you can institute strategies, and play games with infinitesimal HE, like playing the don't pass with don't come, video poker with perfect strategy, and other low HE games. Someone above even suggested working in a team at craps. The problem with this strategy is when a 12 is rolled you are screwed. The only game where you could play for comps, and be totally safe would be Baccarat. And even this still has the commission you have to deal with. However, if your avg bet is a few thousand dollars for 4 hrs a day, they will literally give you the keys to the castle. And in addition, your partner who loses will be showered extensively, so it's a win-win. But, unless your a huge group of Asians, it's hard to pull off team play for comps at Bac since the floor people will likely catch you. Especially if your a couple of white guys. If you have a few Asian friends, you could potentially pull this off.
With play for comps (depending how generous they are) you can turn your -EV scenario into a very +EV proposition. Have any of you seen the rooms and food prices in Vegas these days lately? Just know when you go in playing for comps, you should expect to lose (sometimes badly) and brace yourself for when this happens, and know when it's time to walk away. Self control is of the utmost importance.
Depends how hard you push it, but a 1-6 spread at DD for a long period of time, at a high end place, will not be tolerated. You could potentially get away with it for an hour, maybe two. Eventually you will get the tap, especially if you are using deviations too. They don't call DD a "counter's trap" for nothing. One strip casino which actually seems to be quite tolerant of this modest spreading on their DD games is the Venetian/Pallazo. However their comps suck and I think you must bet at least $50-100 to even be considered for comps. But if all your looking for is a room and MAYBE some grub it could work. Give it a shot and see what happens.
Last edited by WABJ11; 07-29-2015 at 01:25 AM.
You have to be careful is all I can say. Overall it's generally not worth it, cause there's a big chance you'll be exposed and tarnish your name, but if you want to then your best bet on BJ is 2x100-2x300 (which gets 0.3% advantage crap SCORE), full table, slow dealer, slow play and chat, wong out at Italy or the lion (NOT others in these groups, I repeat NOT OTHERS in the group), the canal would be tougher to get anything. Make sure you always bet up when pit keys in your avg bet. You can prob get RFL this way with 3-4 hrs a day, potentially RFB. You don't even get introduced to a host until your avg bet is $300x 4hrs at the opulent palace and that won't get you that much.
Last edited by Masterhoudini; 07-29-2015 at 01:34 AM.
I don't know what kind of system you're using so I don't know what kind of a spread you need. But assuming you're using a level I count, spreading DD to make it a break even game at a 1-3 or 4 spread might not be a bad idea. Under $500 usually won't scare a huge place too much. The other option is using and learning a Level II system which only requires a 1-4 spread on DD to actually turn a profit.
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