comparing two west coast games

[shorty 2]

Hello Folks
I'm a Hi/low AP who has invested in cvcx and here's the story.
using hi low at 8 deck I have built a 25k BR. its been tuff.

Game #1
H17. no surrender. pays 3/2. dealer peaks on both ten or ace. insurance for aces allowed.(same as other game)
-8 decks
-double after split
-split any cards four times.
-Double any two cards.

Game #2
H17. no surrender. pays 3/2. dealer peaks on both ten or ace. insurance for aces allowed.(same as other game)
-1 decks
-no double after split.
-split only once.
-double on two card 10 -11 only.


The only difference is in the last four lines with dashes.
So, after thinking that the one deck game wasn't worth my time because of the rule differences , I realized that it pays 3/2 and is only one deck so maybe I should plug in the info and I was asstounded. CVCX says that those three rules don't matter much. In fact the one deck game with bad rules pays almost twice per hour.
what do you think? I'm still having a hard time believing it because those rules seem HUGE.
lets not get too deep into the complicated stuff. I mean its either a much better game or its not.
the only other thing that should be said is that the 2 deck game wont allow me to switch from one to two hands as I do with the 8 deck game.(ohwell)

[stopgambling]

Of course the one deck game! what are you think ?Oh what is the pen! very important. 8 deck with no surrender suck so bad!

[shorty 2]

yes yes, sucks so bad but atleast ive learned the hardest way. they'll play 2-5 hands with that one deck game depending on players.

The 8 deck is 7/8

[Dog Hand]

shorty 2,

The reason why the SD game is far superior to the 8D game is due to the "max-bet" frequency. At the 8D game with 7/8 pen, the HiLo TC is +4 or higher a bit over 6% of the rounds; on the SD game with 5 rounds heads-up, the TC is +4 or higher about 20% of the time.

Note, though, that at SD the number of spots in play is crucial: a game that's excellent heads-up can be completely unplayable on a full table. You can investigate this for yourself using CVCX.

Hope this helps!

Dog Hand

[stopgambling]

I would still play the 7/8 game as well as the SD ,maximizing my chances for more EV. Of course when all the criteria are met, wonging , heads up play , etc...

[Zach Black]

Here's a good article on single deck game selection:

http://www.bj21.com/bj_reference/pag...election.shtml

The single deck has more potential, but can be a waste of time in busy or crowded conditions.

[shorty 2]

that is a great little article isn't it. but I don't see any evidence . I would say playing only 2 or 3 hands in a one deck game is still far superior than playing most other games.
reason is simple . every four to six hands you have an opertunity to make some money . this is a bunk article that was probably made to teach us to stop playing the good games because were obvious as hell and soon it will disappear all together.
is that too being too paranoid?or am I really onto something here. think about it. once you start playing the count goes up .ITS UP SIGNIFICANTLY because its more like a half a deck so if your count is +4 its actually closer to +7 .I mean its a no brainer.
its possible ive visited the smokey mountains tonight but there could be truth to this.
I am appreciative that it was posted . the info is interesting and I'm glad I read it and saved it to my faves

[Meistro123]

not that it makes a huge difference but does game 1 include RSA? game 1 seems like a decent game to me. add in ES10 and it would be positively exciting.

Did you try simming them in CVCX and comparing the winrates or SCOREs?

how crowded are both games? can you get heads up play?

[Ryemo]

that is a great little article isn't it. but I don't see any evidence . I would say playing only 2 or 3 hands in a one deck game is still far superior than playing most other games.
reason is simple . every four to six hands you have an opertunity to make some money . this is a bunk article that was probably made to teach us to stop playing the good games because were obvious as hell and soon it will disappear all together.
is that too being too paranoid?or am I really onto something here. think about it. once you start playing the count goes up .ITS UP SIGNIFICANTLY because its more like a half a deck so if your count is +4 its actually closer to +7 .I mean its a no brainer.
its possible ive visited the smokey mountains tonight but there could be truth to this.
I am appreciative that it was posted . the info is interesting and I'm glad I read it and saved it to my faves

I read the article and it looks spot on to me. I personally would never consider anything written by LVBear to be a "bunk article". He's a well respected, long-time, full-time pro and his advice is always sound IMO.

[ZenMaster_Flash]

Are we considering the all important twin issues of:

The Cut Card Effect ?

Preferential Shuffling ?

[ZenMaster_Flash]

"I'm not sure what you mean by the Cut Card Effect. But I do have a question. Why does the casino have a rule that the deck be cut more than 5 to 10 cards from the top or bottom of the deck?"

If a Single Deck (and to a smaller degree a Double Deck) has a Cut Card placed in the deck(s) then the dealer cannot preferentially shuffle without being obvious - by ignoring the Cut Card. That is the Good News. The bad news is subtle and insidious, as it is NOT obvious to the player. When the T.C. is high the player will usually get ONE less round and when the T.C. is poor an EXTRA round will usually be dealt. That happens because the number of cards that are dealt to create the very high and very low T.C.'s differs. Think about it.


As far as not cutting near the top or the bottom, the casino does not want you to implement Shuffle Tracking, Ace Location, etc.
In shoe games, dealers will generally ask for "at least one deck", but anything over a half deck will usually be sufficient anyway.

[ZenMaster_Flash]

"If a Single Deck (and to a smaller degree a Double Deck) has a Cut Card placed in the deck(s) then the dealer cannot preferentially shuffle without being obvious - by ignoring the Cut Card. That is the Good News. The bad news is subtle and insidious, as it is NOT obvious to the player. When the T.C. is high the player will usually get ONE less round and when the T.C. is poor an EXTRA round will usually be dealt. That happens because the number of cards that are dealt to create the very high and very low T.C.'s differs. Think about it."

I was hoping that some readers would comment on the above.

[shorty 2]

Hey Zemmaster I hope all is well.
I can say this about the one deck game I was refereeing to at my other local store.
The dealer looked like a smart kid who sided with the PB and took it personally when I started winning .He started cutting more shallow... Only to give me 2-3 rounds which pissed me off terribly. THe first thng I learned playing one deck was how obvious I was and more difficult it was to camo.even the other (2) ploppers at the time started to complain as if it was not regular for him to do, thats when I said "yeah wtf, we're here to play not shuffle,lol.
They wounld not allow me to start with one hand and the go to two.If you want to play two then you must keep doing so.
min $5 max $300

Its a small sweat shop to tell the truth. For me to really win the way I do at the 8 deck would be crazy and theyd surely throw a fit.
but still ,its a one deck game and the only one around that pays 3/2