Am I dreaming??

[dalmatian]

Let's get some terminology straight. If this is ENHC, where you lose all doubles and splits to dealer naturals, then if you were permitted to surrender against either 10 or Ace, that is EARLY surrender, because you get to surrender before the dealer ever gets to his second card, before he could have a natural. That rule is very valuable. But if, in the same game, you can surrender against any other dealer upcard, like 8 or 9, that is normal surrender, in the sense that it is no more valuable than traditional late surrender. I wouldn't call it EARLY surrender, because the fact that the dealer takes no hole card is irrelevant.

Depending, of course, on spread and penetration, which sucks in this game, the most important surrenders against 8 or 9, in order are: 15 vs. 9 at +2 (very valuable), 16 vs. 8 (+4), 16 vs. 9 (+5), 14 vs. 9 (+7), and 15 vs. 8 (+7). No others are worth knowing. But 15 vs. 9 is worth 1.5 times more than all the other combined!

Don

Thanks Don. I guess what I'm confusing is early surrender (which only applies to 10 and Ace) and late surrender (like you argued, by default surrendering against any other rank of card that isn't A or 10 in a ENHC game). I didn't realize that a ES10 game can let you surrender against non 10 dealer up cards (i.e. 8s and 9s). This is news to me. But like you argued surrendering against a 8 or 9 isn't particularly of significant value.

Don here is question you might be able to answer. We can normally put a percentage value for a particular rule set (like RSA vs NRSA is +0.07% against house edge and ES10 is +0.24%, etc.). What is the value of ALL late surrender indices in a game that offers early surrender of 10 but not ace and is ENHC (you cant late surrender X and A so only 8s and 9s). Would this be less than or greater than +0.01%? Or are these late surrender indices already calculated into the +0.24% figure given for ES10?

Thanks,

Dalmatian

[DSchles]

Don here is question you might be able to answer. We can normally put a percentage value for a particular rule set (like RSA vs NRSA is +0.07% against house edge and ES10 is +0.24%, etc.). What is the value of ALL late surrender indices in a game that offers early surrender of 10 but not ace and is ENHC (you cant late surrender X and A so only 8s and 9s). Would this be less than or greater than +0.01%? Or are these late surrender indices already calculated into the +0.24% figure given for ES10?

Beyond ES10, being able to surrender vs. 9 is worth virtually nothing (0.001%) to the basic strategist, and surrender vs. 8 is worth zero. But, as mentioned above, being able to surrender vs. 8 or 9 for the card counter who spreads decently is a very different story. The value of those plays obviously depends on number of decks, penetration, and especially spread. For example, in a 4.5/6, S17, LS 1-12 game, using those surrenders would increase SCORE by about 2.5%.

Don

[dalmatian]

Beyond ES10, being able to surrender vs. 9 is worth virtually nothing (0.001%) to the basic strategist, and surrender vs. 8 is worth zero. But, as mentioned above, being able to surrender vs. 8 or 9 for the card counter who spreads decently is a very different story. The value of those plays obviously depends on number of decks, penetration, and especially spread. For example, in a 4.5/6, S17, LS 1-12 game, using those surrenders would increase SCORE by about 2.5%.

Don

Thanks Don!!!

I AM spreading pretty hefty on the 3.5/6 S17 ENHC ES10 DOA DAS RSA 3SPL Game:

Negative and Neutral Counts: 1x5

+1: 2x50

+2 and above: 2x100

It would probably be worth my time to memorize these surrender plays which would probably add at least a $1 to my hourly EV!!!

Dalmatian

[21forme]

+2 and above: 2x100

kn or USD?

[dalmatian]

kn or USD?

An interesting issue. I came to Croatia with [USD] dollars and the country uses [KN] Kunas but at the blackjack tables they use [EUR] euros. The casino gives me around 97% for conversion of USD to EUR but local currency shops give around 98% USD to KN while at the casino you can take the KN and exchange direct to EUR with no fee (7.5 kunas for 1 euro). So I am playing in euros but converting USD to KN to EUR if that makes any sense.

Dalmatian