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Mister M: Re: Mister, what is the advantage
> Are you saying when my count goes to where I
> would normally put up 2 units for the first
> time, I should now bet 2 hands of 2 units?
Instead of betting 2 units on one postion, spread to 1 unit each on two positions when a 2 unit bet is called for.This applies ANY time your bet is more than 1 unit.
Example count calls for 6 unit bet.Play 2 positions of 3 each.
Run a sim playing with the examples and then compare your current method.The scores have increased!.
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Hollywood: Re: Mister, what is the advantage
> Instead of betting 2 units on one postion,
> spread to 1 unit each on two positions when
> a 2 unit bet is called for.This applies ANY
> time your bet is more than 1 unit.
> Example count calls for 6 unit bet.Play 2
> positions of 3 each.
> Run a sim playing with the examples and then
> compare your current method.The scores have
> increased!.
Thank you, I will certainly look into this.
Hollywood
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Don Schlesinger: Re: Mister, what is the advantage
> Instead of betting 2 units on one postion,
> spread to 1 unit each on two positions when
> a 2 unit bet is called for.This applies ANY
> time your bet is more than 1 unit.
> Example count calls for 6 unit bet.Play 2
> positions of 3 each.
> Run a sim playing with the examples and then
> compare your current method.The scores have
> increased!
Let's be careful here. If you use the SAME unit size and spread to two hands of one-half unit each, your EV remains the same, but your variance is less for the two hands than doublke that of one hand, so SCORE will increase if you CHANGE your unit size for the two hands. You can't expect to actually win more, per unit of time, by betting the same amount as on one hand, while using up more cards.
On the other hand (pun intended!), if you usually bet $100 on a hand and then increase to two hands of $150, you increase your EV (unless playing alone), increase your variance, but leave ROR the same, which some people (including yours truly) find desirable.
Don
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Parker: Um, okay
> I HATE TO FLY
I must confess that that is one explanation that never even crossed my mind.
I used to be uncomfortable flying. Then I got a job with a major corporation that required constant air travel.
Now, the only feeling of any sort that I have about flying is that it boring. Fortunately, I am one of those people who can fall asleep anywhere.
Unfortunately (at least for those seated near me) I snore. :-)
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Kim Lee: Yes
Note the object is not to maximize SCORE, it is to maximize certainty equivalent. Fortunately your hand spreading approach does both. Hollywood needs to decide how much he is willing to risk for each truecount (.5% advantage). Let's suppose he is willing to risk $200 per true count. Then he should bet $100 at truecounts of +1, $200 at +2, $400 at +3, ... $1000 at +6. He should bet 2 spots of 75% (150% total) whenever the truecount is greater than +1 and there are other players.
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Mister M: Re: Yes
Dear Kim
I generally do play two hands whenever a bet of more than one unit is called for,i.e the ramp cas for a 6 unit bet,i would play two positions of three units each or occasionally split the amount to have 4 and 2.What do you think?.
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Don Schlesinger: Re: Yes
> Dear Kim
> I generally do play two hands whenever a bet
> of more than one unit is called for,i.e the
> ramp cas for a 6 unit bet,i would play two
> positions of three units each or
> occasionally split the amount to have 4 and
> 2.What do you think?.
You need to bet MORE on the two hands combined than what you would on one alone. That's what we're trying to explain. Otherwise, you're just using up cards for no increase in EV.
One hand of $100 = two hands of $75. Get it?
Don
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Mister M: Re: Yes
To clarify then.If my ramp calls for a 6 unit bet for example does it negatively impact the ev by just spreading to 2 positions of 3 units.
I find this looks more natural to the pit than only spreading to 2 hands when a max is called for but I do not want expectation or ror to be impacted.
If I understand Kim's post correctly then if I normally would for example bet 12 units at tc+5 this would allow me to bet aprox 18 units if spreading to 2 hands.
Sorry If I am unclear on this.
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MathProf: High Table Minimums
As I understand your situation, you feel that your current betting level is too high for your desired RoR. So you want to reduce your bigger bets.
Now one thing that is done by many players is to simply reduce all the bets. However, in your case this is not a viable option, because the only acceptable games have $100 minimums.
An alternative is to simply to leave more negative shoes. For Shoe play, you should NEVER play all. You have to use the bathroom sometime, be sure to do it in a negative Shoe. Even getting out of 10% of the negative hands can be a boost to your score.
If I were to play against a high table minimum, I would use a small spread but be more aggressive in leaving negatives.
> Currently, I play in AC at 6 deck game with
> the following rules.
> doa
> das
> split 3 time max
> shoe game
> Currently using KO, I flat bet $100.00 with
> a maximum bet of $1000.00. Then finally
> (when i'm playing with other players only) 2
> hands of $1000.00.
> My question is this.
> With the above conditions, will my result
> still be adequate, if I were to keep the
> same format as above, but I reduce my
> maximum bet to $500.00. Then eventually 2
> hands of $500.00 in place of one and two
> hands of $1000.00.
> Thanks,
> Hollywood
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Kim Lee: You are lowering EV
> If my ramp calls for a 6
> unit bet for example does it negatively
> impact the ev by just spreading to 2
> positions of 3 units?
Your EV is not affected on that round. But you eat more good cards, so you get less rounds in a positive count. This lowers your overall EV. Suppose you spread to 6 spots of 1 unit? Now you would quickly eat up all the good shoes, getting only 3 rounds per positive deck, while slogging through many rounds of bad shoes, getting 10 rounds per negative deck. You can't win playing 3 times as many negative rounds as positive rounds without an enormous spread.
It is a basic principle that you should bet more when you have a bigger advantage or less risk. The expectation (per dollar) is identical with one spot or two. But the risk is lower because you have diversification. Therefore you should bet more.
> If I understand Kim's post correctly then if
> I normally would for example bet 12 units at
> tc+5 this would allow me to bet aprox 18
> units if spreading to 2 hands.
That's right.
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Mister M: Re: You are lowering EV
Thank you for the response Kim.
Can you explain the following?.
What difference does it make to ev / ror if one plays in a high count :6hands over 3 rounds or 6 hands over 6 rounds?
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Don Schlesinger: Re: You are lowering EV
> Thank you for the response Kim.
> Can you explain the following?.
> What difference does it make to ev / ror if
> one plays in a high count :6hands over 3
> rounds or 6 hands over 6 rounds?
Unusual question. When you're done with the six hands over three rounds, what do you plan to do for the next three rounds, while the count is still high?
Don
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Mister M: Re: You are lowering EV
> Unusual question. When you're done with the
> six hands over three rounds, what do you
> plan to do for the next three rounds, while
> the count is still high?
Does not one use up the same amount of cards playing for example 6 hands over 3 rounds as opposed to 6 hands over 6 rounds. I am trying to find out if my usual method of spreading to 2 hands when a bet of more than 1 unit is called for will impact ev or ror.
Are not the same amount of cards up either
way?.
I am not speaking of placing a max bet here , just spreading to 2 of 2 rather than 1 of 4 purely as an example.
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