Joe Miner: Trackjack v CBJN questions

[Joe Miner]

The Trackjack free trial period expires I believe on April 15th. The decision is wheather or not to subscribe. I currently subscribe to CBJN.

The pros and cons as I view both table conditions reports are as follows.

CBJN. Pros: easy format to read, and precise penetration data. Cons: Monthly reporting, sometimes inaccurate penetration data.

Trackjack. Pros: Dymanic report with comments, daily reporting capabilities (no need to wait until the end of the month). Cons: non-precise penetration data, the report is difficult to read (layout and color).

Conclusion. I am still undecided. I wish the penetration data was precise.

What are your comments? Is Trackjack worth the subscription price? Will the penetration data ever be more precise? Will the report ever be easier to read? Or do you like it as it is?

[Double21]

Actually my question is: will people report on good games? A lot of people strongly believe it is stupid to report on good games because the masses will flock to them and they will soon be gone. What do you think?

[chg]

Mah pussonal op: Great games will be hidden. Good games such as DD at Mandalay Bay will be reported.

[Joe Miner]

> Actually my question is: will people report
> on good games? A lot of people strongly
> believe it is stupid to report on good games
> because the masses will flock to them and
> they will soon be gone. What do you think?

I believe you are correct. I do or at least have not reported on good games. I know of several LV games that are better then what has been reported. I have not done so because I believe most counters would only screw them up and then the next time I want to play them they are gone. I only share this information in a private network of people I know and trust.

[Double21]

[98%]

There are a few roadblocks to sharing information about good games on the internet or in a publication like CBJN. The main consideration is that penetration throughout the blackjack world is highly dealer dependent. I have no problem being open about a casino which has penetration or rules which are generally good (Treasure Island Double Deck, for example) or maybe a really low heat-factor. Chances are these places are well-aware of the ramifications of offering good conditions and are willing to stomach the potential loss for the overall gains such conditions afford the bottom line of the casino. But, when it comes to reporting on individual dealers, it is just too risky. Hypothetically speaking, if I were to post something like 'Eunice at the Horseshoe deals out 90% of the cards at the double deck game on swing shift.' how long would it be before that was put to a stop either by a pit manager who got wind of the post or by a hoard of counters who flocked straight there and followed her around from table to table? Unfortunately for reporting on games, most of the 'great games' are of the needle-in-a-haystack variety, because a casino may have 40 tables and, on a given shift, only one of those will be occupied by a dealer who gives that ever-elusive great penetration. Now, if I found such a game at, say, Mandalay Bay on day shift, would it really do the counting community a great service for me to say 'Go to Mandalay Bay on day shift and you MIGHT find a great game.' I doubt it. If all the other games there were bad, it would probably just be a waste of everyone's time and even saying that much may be enough to alert their staff. Ultimately, each counter or team has to do their own legwork to find the opportunities which are genuinely profitable. If you're a tourist who makes occasional trips to Las Vegas then something like CBJN or Trackjack is fine. Just try to find the casinos with generally good conditions and spend your time working those. If you play everyday, you're going to have a hard time being seen in Treasure Island everyday and winning. Sooner or later (and probably sooner at a joint like that!) they're going to object to your winning ways and send you on your way.

This is not to say that CBJN and trackjack are useless to a professional. Despite playing nearly everyday, I have often found opportunities in the various blackjack publications I may have otherwise missed - I just do not entertain the notion that I can simply peruse a magazine or a website and then go out and make ends meet playing blackjack.

[Joe Miner]

Well stated. I agree with your opinion. For me either publication is only a start. I just don't believe or trust the information enough to rely on it everyday. By playing often I know where the good games, what shift, what dealers, etc.

These publications, I believe, have more value for the "serious" recreational player or a counter who plays occasionally.

[Double21]

>
Very good points 98%. The examples you used were in Las Vegas, where people can very easily cruise around and find (or verify) good games. The problem alot of people have (including many on this board) in reporting on casino conditions in other states (excluding Atlantic City) is that, where you only have a few good games, it is stupid to turn the "masses" on to them. Why fight the crowds? Why risk having the game burned out by a group of good counters? The out of state casinos don't, as a rule, have the financial resources of an MGM/Mirage corporation and they can't absorb a big hit very often. So under these circumstances what's the advantage for a local counter to identify these games to the masses?

[98%]

I suppose if I lived in a two-casino town, I wouldn't go around blabbing about the good games there either First of all, if you work a small place like that, you probably know all the local counters and have a bit of an information network in place. The last thing you want is a bunch of big money players who have been 86'd out of every property in Vegas looking for fertile ground happening upon a braggadoccious endorsement of your local casinos buried in the back pages of Blackjack Forum or CBJN or on trackjack. If I lived in some dust-bowl in the middle of Nevada or near a couple of small casinos in middle-America, I'd be tight-lipped as well. You just need to hope that no industrious counters end up visiting your favorite local haunt and dutifully reporting the great finds to one of the various sites or publications.

I think that, in general, conditions reports are meant for the large blackjack areas of the world - Las Vegas, Reno, Atlantic City and some of the larger Indian casinos. As I mentioned in a previous post, these reports are best suited for people who intend to visit one of these areas and play for a few days or so. Any serious professionals or teams will do their own legwork or perhaps even have scouts mapping out a profitable blackjack route for them instead of relying on the CBJNs of the world. With the odd exception, that is really all they are good for. So...take them for what they are worth.

[Hollywood]

> I believe you are correct. I do or at least
> have not reported on good games. I know of
> several LV games that are better then what
> has been reported. I have not done so
> because I believe most counters would only
> screw them up and then the next time I want
> to play them they are gone. I only share
> this information in a private network of
> people I know and trust.

You raise a very interesting question, I just came back from a game that was the best I had ever seen. Actually, I hated to leave.

I play in AC exclusivly in the the Pit, because it's the only place where you can get 6 decks instead of the customary 8 they offer.

But, I just returned from a 2 deck shoe game, with 75% PEN. DOS, DAS. And split 4 times. I won 9 out of 11 days. They seemed immune to bet spreads. In a 2 deck game, they permitted me to spread 10 to 1. Yes, you are reading this correctly. (they never blinked)

Anyway I just sat there about 5 hours a day and enjoyed myself.

Now, this being said. I will not mention the where in this room, for 2 reasons.
1. Even though I doubt it, they could be monitoring this room.
2. Any counter would get excited over a game like this and I would not want the word out. I'm hoping to milk this for several years. It truly spoiled me. I'm going back to the 6 decks of AC on Saturday. Boy does that suck.
I must now make some ajustments. Anyway, I just thought I would like to share it.

Regards,

Hollywood

[ET Fan]

Hollywood,

I know of some (low stakes) games that good, and they are nice, but please realize you CAN lose in that setting. You were probably skillful, but you were also very lucky.

There wouldn't be a $200 max in this casino, would there? ;-} I spread $10 to 2x$100, and sat out perhaps 20% of the time.

L:U:C:K
ETF

> You raise a very interesting question, I
> just came back from a game that was the best
> I had ever seen. Actually, I hated to leave.

> I play in AC exclusivly in the the Pit,
> because it's the only place where you can
> get 6 decks instead of the customary 8 they
> offer.

> But, I just returned from a 2 deck shoe
> game, with 75% PEN. DOS, DAS. And split 4
> times. I won 9 out of 11 days. They seemed
> immune to bet spreads. In a 2 deck game,
> they permitted me to spread 10 to 1. Yes,
> you are reading this correctly. (they never
> blinked)

> Anyway I just sat there about 5 hours a day
> and enjoyed myself.

> Now, this being said. I will not mention
> the where in this room, for 2 reasons.
> 1. Even though I doubt it, they could be
> monitoring this room.
> 2. Any counter would get excited over a
> game like this and I would not want the word
> out. I'm hoping to milk this for several
> years. It truly spoiled me. I'm going back
> to the 6 decks of AC on Saturday. Boy does
> that suck.
> I must now make some ajustments. Anyway, I
> just thought I would like to share it.

> Regards,

> Hollywood