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ShoelessD: LV Trip
First trip to Vegas in many years. Stayed for a week, played in about fifeteen shops from Freemont to the Strip to Red Rock.
My first impression was of the terrible play by alot of the players. Splitting tens with no apparant counting skill. Doubling down on 13 AND 14. Poor soft doubling actions. These were all DAILEY occurances. In the past, I have detected some bias toward the Connecticut Indian Casino's concerning player ability. However, I must say the average player in Foxwoods and Mohegan is vastly superior to the average player in Vegas.
Surprised to find Surrender available at the Hilton and Venetian. Surprised to find the paycheck cashing line about 40 yards long at the RedRock on payday.
There was one shop on Freemont, next to the Las Vegas Club, that advertised "Most liberal rules in Vegas". Doubling on any amount of cards, 6 card 21 automatically wins, etc. I couldn't figure it out. It looked like Spanish 21, but the 10 denomination cards were still in the decks. Anyone know what the catch it to this game?
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Trapper: Superfun 21
> There was one shop on Freemont, next to the Las Vegas
> Club, that advertised "Most liberal rules in
> Vegas". Doubling on any amount of cards, 6 card
> 21 automatically wins, etc. I couldn't figure it out.
> It looked like Spanish 21, but the 10 denomination
> cards were still in the decks. Anyone know what the
> catch it to this game?
Sounds like Super Fun 21 which has many advantageous rules. The 10 value cards are still in the deck. The catch is blackjacks pay even money except for some suited blackjacks which pay 2 to 1 (can't remember which suit). I am guessing you saw this game at the California. It's at several stores downtown and around town. The house edge is nearly 1% in single deck and higher with double deck. The game is junk. Almost as bad as 6:5.
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Parker: Vegas Club "World's Most Liberal 21"
> There was one shop on Freemont, next to the Las Vegas
> Club, that advertised "Most liberal rules in
> Vegas". Doubling on any amount of cards, 6 card
> 21 automatically wins, etc. I couldn't figure it out.
> It looked like Spanish 21, but the 10 denomination
> cards were still in the decks. Anyone know what the
> catch it to this game?
The catch is that most blackjacks pay even money. Suited snappers pay 2:1, but since that only happens on 25% of blackjacks (on average), the net result is similar to a 6:5 BJ payout. The other rules do not come close to compensating for this. It's not SuperFun 21, although it is similar. The house edge is even worse than SF21 - around 1.2% or so. Obviously a game to avoid.
Years ago, they offered the same rules with the traditional 3:2 BJ payout, which may well have been the "World's Most LIberal 21," or at least one of the better games downtown. Sadly, those days are long gone.
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Trapper: I think he wrote that it was in a casino next door to the Vegas Club
I think Super Fun pays 2:1 on only one suit - I think diamonds - and not on all suited BJs. That might be one difference. I think the Vegas Club game is a multi deck shoe game - I was almost fooled me into sitting down since I expected the not-so-fun 21 games to be pitch. I suppose Vegas Club developed their version of the game to get around paying royalties to the licensee of Super Fun 21. In any case a very bad game but the 3:2 version sounds pretty good - they should bring it back.
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ShoelessD: Re: LV Trip
The worst gaff of the week came at the Stratosphere, where I was just pulling ahead in a neutral shoe and get dealt two Jacks against the dealer Ace. She checks her mirror for BJ and tucks her cards. I wave off the hit, and she flips a King.......then proceeds to pull a 6 from the deck. She hesitates a second....and then pays me my three greens. I guess 20 beats 17.
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Sonny: Hitting a soft 11?!
> ...get dealt two Jacks against the dealer Ace...I wave
> off the hit, and she flips a King.......then proceeds to
> pull a 6 from the deck. She hesitates a second....and
> then pays me my three greens. I guess 20 beats 17.
So the dealer showed a BJ, then hit it?! Brilliant! Let me guess, then the phone rings and she gets quite a lecture at her next break. =)
-Sonny-
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Parker: Re: I think he wrote that it was in a casino next door to the Vegas Club
Well, there really is no casino "next door" to the Vegas Club - it is on the corner of Fremont and Main. One must cross Main St. to get to the Plaza, and adjacent to the other side is a souvenir shop and the infamous Glitter Gulch strip joint. Binion's doen't start until the next block. And the Vegas Club does indeed have exterior signs proclaiming, "World's Most Liberal 21."
> I think Super Fun pays 2:1 on only one suit - I think
> diamonds - and not on all suited BJs.
That is correct. In addition, SF21 has more "good" rules, such as being able to hit split aces more than once, doublling down on split aces, surrender after splitting/doubling, etc.
> That might be
> one difference. I think the Vegas Club game is a multi
> deck shoe game - I was almost fooled me into sitting
> down since I expected the not-so-fun 21 games to be
> pitch. I suppose Vegas Club developed their version of
> the game to get around paying royalties to the
> licensee of Super Fun 21.
Actually, their "liberal rules" game predates SF21, going back at least 20 years.
> In any case a very bad game
> but the 3:2 version sounds pretty good - they should
> bring it back.
That seems highly unlikely under present management.
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Trapper: Not serious about bringing back the 3:2 version, unfortunately
Its really startling how quickly the downtown games have deteriorated. I sat down at a 6 decker at the Golden Nugget about 6 months ago and was told by the dealer it paid 6:5. That game was gone on my last visit but now Fitzgeralds has 6:5 8 deckers and Binions has got rid of all their pitch games that paid 3:2. The games here are, with a couple of exceptions, worse than the games offered in areas of the country known for mediocre blackjack. It's a wonder anyone goes downtown at all.
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