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Cacarulo: AMD or Pentium?
This is another interesting question like my previous about distros.
I'm currently in the process of updating my old hardware but I'm stuck on this "simple" question
Should I buy an AMD ATHLON XP 3200+/3000+ or a Pentium IV 3.0 Ghz HT Prescott? I know there are better alternatives like AMD 64 bit but say my budget is limited to the former.
ATHLON is cheaper and according to most of the benchmarks I've seen it outperforms Pentium. But when I go to the stores the salesmen say that Pentium is faster. I don't believe them a 100% but I'm not that expert.
The main use is for running sims and mostly calculus.
What are the expert suggestions?
Thanks in advance.
Cacarulo
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bfbagain: Re: AMD or Pentium?
Pentium 4 with hyperthreading, ala Prescott is the ticket. Get the 800Mhz, 1M cache chip.
I like AMD, a lot. And there's some advantages to it besides price.....but
For your specific requirements, it's Intel all the way.
Check out the Asus mainboards, and oh, get the fastest CPU that your budget will allow, e.g., 3.2 which is approx $50 more than the 3.0
cheers
bfb
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Norm Wattenberger: My last AMD
I had three Dell Intel's and an off-brand AMD. The AMD melted exactly two weeks ago. I now have four Dell's. The AMD was only two years old. One of the Dells has been running 24 hours a day for five years (the BJStats server.) The melt-down has been extremely inconvenient. I just got back my old e-mails and orders files an hour ago and will be reconfiguring for another week.
Having said that, the AMD is much faster for sims. But, is doesn't have hyper-threading. HT is wonderful if you run long intensive compute bound jobs (like sims) and also wish to use the PC for other tasks at the same time.
On cost, Dell is amazingly cheap, particularly if you buy a refurbished unit. (Although that may be US only.) I just bought a 3.0 GHz Prescott with SATA drive, PCI Express video card and half a gig of DDR2 memory for $713. Free shipping no tax. Very well built with an enormous heat-sink, quiet fans and a chassis that opens like a sandwich for easy maintenance. No screws for the case or the cards. Lift a plastic retainer and all of the cards can be pulled out. On the minus side, no support for my old EIDE disk or tape drive.
Of course this is just one person's experience.
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Parker: Re: AMD or Pentium?
I've been using AMD CPU's almost exclusively since the days when a 486 was bleeding edge. Never had any problems at all.
Personally, I think benchmark tests merely prove which CPU can run benchmark tests better.
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Parker: Re: My last AMD
> I had three Dell Intel's and an off-brand
> AMD. The AMD melted exactly two weeks ago. I
> now have four Dell's. The AMD was only two
> years old. One of the Dells has been running
> 24 hours a day for five years (the BJStats
> server.) The melt-down has been extremely
> inconvenient. I just got back my old e-mails
> and orders files an hour ago and will be
> reconfiguring for another week.
You certainly have had some bad luck with computers. :-)
I'm not saying that this was the case in your situation, but CPU meltdowns are often caused by the cooling fan/heatsink being of inferior quality and/or being improperly installed. The first thing I do with any computer that someone brings me for service is pull the fan/heatsink, clean the top of the CPU and heatsink, and properly reinstall it with thermal grease. I do this on my own systems about once a year.
It's amazing how many CPU's I've found with no thermal grease or tape, or some dried-out old crud that was totally non-functional, or a heatsink that wasn't properly centered over the CPU.
It also amazes me that some people will pay several hundred dollars for a bleeding edge CPU, and then stick a $5 cooling fan on it.
> Having said that, the AMD is much faster for
> sims. But, is doesn't have hyper-threading.
> HT is wonderful if you run long intensive
> compute bound jobs (like sims) and also wish
> to use the PC for other tasks at the same
> time.
> On cost, Dell is amazingly cheap,
> particularly if you buy a refurbished unit.
> (Although that may be US only.) I just
> bought a 3.0 GHz Prescott with SATA drive,
> PCI Express video card and half a gig of
> DDR2 memory for $713. Free shipping no tax.
> Very well built with an enormous heat-sink,
> quiet fans and a chassis that opens like a
> sandwich for easy maintenance. No screws for
> the case or the cards. Lift a plastic
> retainer and all of the cards can be pulled
> out.
Now that I could get used to! :-)
Of course, the last pre-assembled computer that I bought was a Compaq DeskPro 486 DX2-66.
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bfbagain: Benchmarks...
I'm on the record as saying I'm an AMD fan.
And I agree about benchmarks....in fact, Intel has been accused of that very same thing, but you probably knew that.
But....you knew this was coming...
Start running some index sims (on Norm's software), and it will become readily apparent which CPU will perform better, and faster. Which is what Cacarulo's needs are, as I understand it.
cheers
bfb
PS I hate PC wars, i.e., computers, software, etc. ....therefore, my opinions are merely based on what's best, period.
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Parker: Re: Benchmarks...
> I'm on the record as saying I'm an AMD fan.
> And I agree about benchmarks....in fact,
> Intel has been accused of that very same
> thing, but you probably knew that.
> But....you knew this was coming...
> Start running some index sims (on Norm's
> software), and it will become readily
> apparent which CPU will perform better, and
> faster. Which is what Cacarulo's needs are,
> as I understand it.
To be honest, I can't really comment knowledgeably on a direct comparison of the latest Althon vs. P4, since the most recent Pentium system I have lying around is a 1Ghz P3. I've always used AMD CPU's simply because they provide more bang for the buck and, well, I'm a cheapskate.
Even how fast a system runs sims doesn't really concern me, since I usually get the sim started and then go do something else. By the time I remember to check on the sim, it has long since finished running. :-)
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bfbagain: We agree, really :)
My assumption, being that Cacarulo is a mathematician, is that time would be important to him, thus, having the chip that completes math calculations the fastest, would be of more value.
As to other computing needs, there are many cases for both AMD and Intel, e.g., for someone who is to use a system for word processing, some spreadsheets, an accounting app, plus the internet and it's applications, the AMD is economical and the performance choice.
Also, the multimedia capabilities of the AMD chips are on a par (and less expensive) than the higher end Intel chips.
But back to math requirements, e.g., engineering, audio and video editing, again, it's now Intel.
A year ago, they were the same. Now, Intel's back on top.
cheers
bfb
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Norm Wattenberger: Re: My last AMD
> I'm not saying that this was the case in
> your situation, but CPU meltdowns are often
> caused by the cooling fan/heatsink being of
> inferior quality and/or being improperly
> installed.
This definitely was the case. Small heatsink, cheap noisy fans and no cowling. The Dell heatsink is huge. Six thick copper rods conduct the heat to a couple dozen 10 sq. in. fins. Large fan inset from the back to reduce noise.
Of course everything is relative. I have a Krell amplifier that weighs 140 lbs.
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Norm Wattenberger: Sims
The P4 is disappointing for sims. AMD beats it by a wider margin than published benchmarks would indicate. I think it's because of the triple integer units. But it could be better branch prediction or bigger L1 cache too. I'll try the prescott next week to see if the larger caches and pipeline make a difference.
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Cacarulo: Re: AMD or Pentium?
> Pentium 4 with hyperthreading, ala Prescott
> is the ticket. Get the 800Mhz, 1M cache
> chip.
> I like AMD, a lot. And there's some
> advantages to it besides price.....but
> For your specific requirements, it's Intel
> all the way.
> Check out the Asus mainboards, and oh, get
> the fastest CPU that your budget will allow,
> e.g., 3.2 which is approx $50 more than the
> 3.0
Thanks for your comments but I'm still confused about which one is better. Norm says that for running sims AMD is better -which I tend to agree- but you say the opposite. These type of contradictions is what I also find on the web.
Agree that 3.2 is worth $50 more.
Sincerely,
Cac
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Cacarulo: Re: My last AMD
> I had three Dell Intel's and an off-brand
> AMD. The AMD melted exactly two weeks ago. I
> now have four Dell's. The AMD was only two
> years old. One of the Dells has been running
> 24 hours a day for five years (the BJStats
> server.) The melt-down has been extremely
> inconvenient. I just got back my old e-mails
> and orders files an hour ago and will be
> reconfiguring for another week.
> Having said that, the AMD is much faster for
> sims. But, is doesn't have hyper-threading.
> HT is wonderful if you run long intensive
> compute bound jobs (like sims) and also wish
> to use the PC for other tasks at the same
> time.
> On cost, Dell is amazingly cheap,
> particularly if you buy a refurbished unit.
> (Although that may be US only.) I just
> bought a 3.0 GHz Prescott with SATA drive,
> PCI Express video card and half a gig of
> DDR2 memory for $713. Free shipping no tax.
> Very well built with an enormous heat-sink,
> quiet fans and a chassis that opens like a
> sandwich for easy maintenance. No screws for
> the case or the cards. Lift a plastic
> retainer and all of the cards can be pulled
> out. On the minus side, no support for my
> old EIDE disk or tape drive.
> Of course this is just one person's
> experience.
If I ever decided for AMD I would pay especial attention to the cooler
Sincerely,
Cac
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Cacarulo: Re: My last AMD
> I'm not saying that this was the case in
> your situation, but CPU meltdowns are often
> caused by the cooling fan/heatsink being of
> inferior quality and/or being improperly
> installed. The first thing I do with any
> computer that someone brings me for service
> is pull the fan/heatsink, clean the top of
> the CPU and heatsink, and properly reinstall
> it with thermal grease. I do this on my own
> systems about once a year.
Interesting tips. I've learned something.
Thanks Parker.
Sincerely,
Cac
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