The Phantom: Three Questions

[The Phantom]

1. What is your guess-estimate as to how many counters there are in the U.S. who make a

living playing the game full-time?

In the Golden Age of Science Fiction, 1939-1963, virtually none of the serious writers of

that period (Robert Heinlein being one known excpeption) were ever able to support themselves

full-time at it. Jack Williamson, James Gunn, and Phillip Klass became teachers of science fiction

at universities; Leigh Brackett supported herself with screenwriting; Clifford Simak kept working

as editor of a Minneapolis newspaper; Fredrik Pohl worked as an editor and as an agent of other's

works, and as as a lecturer; Alfred Bester worked as editor at Holiday Magazine. To those of us

who are buffs in the field, they were Giants. But, in short, virtually none could quit their day jobs.

Although we appear to be in a Golden Age of Blackjack, I wonder if the same syndrome applies.

Although there are many known names in the BJ field, most appear to support themselves

helping others with Blackjack.

Undoubtedly, as stated elsewhere in the forum, the greatest counters will never be known because

they choose to remain anonymous.

But the question is: What is a good guess about the number of U.S. players counting 40 hours a

week as their sole income?

2. Risk of ruin?

Assumptions

Total Bankroll Willing to Risk: $10,000

Each Trip Bankroll Limited to: $ 500 [that is, stop play if $500 won or $500 lost]

$5 tables only

Spread 1 to 50

Standard LAS Strip rules/4 deck

Wong Hi-Lo Count

BS Deviations Used by TC

3. Should one always ask to see the burn card? In other words, why not assume that at a $5 table, possible heat is negligible or that even if it occurs, so what? Or does always asking to see the burn card matter at all to the Eye in the Sky?

[Saboteur]

Everything I've read leads me to believe that the late 60s and early 70s were the best years for playing blackjack.

Just a guess: Percentage-wise, more professional BJ players have abandoned their game in the last five years than pros from any other gambling venue. Just my take.

[Parker]

> Everything I've read leads me to believe
> that the late 60s and early 70s were the
> best years for playing blackjack.

Well, it's certainly true that there were a lot of deeply-dealt single deck games around back then, and you won't find those any more. OTOH, back then you played in Nevada if you wanted to play. Furthermore, casino cheating was widespread, and suspected counters were likely to be backroomed and beaten to within an inch of their lives.

There was no Internet, no personal computers, and only a handful of blackjack books. There were bogus "systems" selling for several hundred dollars, and no easy way of knowing that they were worthless.

Now, we have the Internet, personal computers with high speed simulators, forums such as this one, and dozens of blackjack books. Casinos are poppimg up all over -- 31 states now allow some form of casino gambling. Every new casino opening presents new opportunities for those who know where to look.

The "good old days?" I think not.

> Just a guess: Percentage-wise, more
> professional BJ players have abandoned their
> game in the last five years than pros from
> any other gambling venue. Just my take.

The number of pros I personally know has remained pretty static over the last few years. A few have given up the game, or expanded into other areas, but newcomers have taken their place.

[Parker]

> 1. What is your guess-estimate as to how
> many counters there are in the U.S. who make
> a living playing the game full-time?

Most active pros do indeed shun publicity (no positive EV in it for them), so it is hard to say. There are a handful of real pros making six figure incomes, probably not more than 200 or so worldwide. These guys have icewater for blood and my heartfelt respect.

Then there are other professional advantage players, for whom card counting is merely one weapon in their arsenal. They can count cards, shuffle track, ace sequence, hole card, and other techniques that most people have never heard of. Again, they are extremely small in numbers.

There is another group, mostly concentrated around Las Vegas and other areas with a lot of casinos. These people don't have the big bankroll, but they manage to eke out a living by counting cards, coupon hustling, video poker, and other forms of advantage play. These people are characterized by a fierce sense of independence and an intense loathing for any sort of "straight job."

Other groups of card counters would be those who make a serious second income at advantage play, but still keep the "day job," and perhaps the largest group; those who don't make significant money at it, but simply enjoy the fact that they are playing with an edge and can beat the casinos in the long run.

Sorry, only one question at a time. :-)

[The Phantom]

> Sorry, only one question at a time. :-)

Excuse me, I didn't know about the 'one question at a time rule.' Will do so hereafter. Will re-post.

[Parker]

> Excuse me, I didn't know about the 'one
> question at a time rule.' Will do so
> hereafter. Will re-post.

I was joking -- hence the "smiley". There is no "rule" regarding how many questions may be contained in a post.

However, since the topic has come up, it is true that you will generally receive more responses to a post if you do limit it to a single topic/question.