What is the EBJ 2 count system? What are its tag values? Does it use a side count? Also what does EBJ stand for?Originally Posted by Gramazeka
https://www.blackjackreview.com/wp/e...m-comparisons/
We are talking about HL+7m9c not HL+Am6c. This is not relevant to the discussion.Originally Posted by bjanalyst
So the side counts I considered were Am6c and 7m9c to add to the HL. Either one should produce good results. The Am6c helps with insurance and hard 16 hit/stand and surrender decisions but does not help with betting. 7m9c helps with betting and LS but does not help with insurance or hard 16 hit/stand or surrender decision. You can't have everything. I chose 7m9c because it helped with betting as well as LS. But Am6c could have been chosen as well. Either is fine.
Good results? How do you know that? Yes, you can have everything you are just too incompetent to do both.
--------
There is no one side count that does everything. If you want to improve insurance and hard 16 you need Am6c. If you want to improve betting and LS you need 7m9c. There is not a single side count that does both. If you need help with both then you need to keep both counts. But that is keeping two side counts and you want to keep things simple so you only want to keep one side count. So I chose 7m9c as the one side count to keep with HL, but you could just as easily chose Am6c as the one side count to keep with HL.
I will attach HL w Am6c as a PDF. This count is not being analyzed but you can see how it helps with insurance and hard 16 hit/stand.
The simplest side counts to include with the HL would be level one plus/minus side counts involving only two ranks.
The simplest side count would be side counting only one card and not two cards.
---------
Actually a side count of Aces, for example, is a balanced plus/minus count also - it is a level 12 plus/minus count. For Ace Deficiency = Adef, the Aces are counted as +(12/13) and all other ranks are counted as -(1/13). In practice, what you do is calculate Adef = Ap - 4*dp where Ap = Aces played and dp = decks played but that is really counting the Aces as +12/13 and all other ranks as -1/13 as I stated above.
Also Adef is an ESTIMATE as you are estimating dp. And Ap is continually increasing as decks are played.
7m9c, in contrast, counts only 2 ranks, not 13 ranks like Adef. Also 7m9c is a level one plus/minus count and is EXACT - it does not depend on decks played - there is no estimate. And finally 7m9c mean is zero so 7m9c fluctuates around its means of zero - it is not continually increasing as Ap is.
Attachment 3883
172 posts (now 173!) all in order to come to a forgone conclusion that some of us knew after post #1: On a number line continuum, if Hi-Lo is 1 and Hi-Opt II is 10, the current count (clumsily labeled HL+7m9c, for maximum annoyance) will SCORE about a 3 or 4. So it will improve Hi-Lo by a small amount, but will not approach Hi-Opt II.
No other conclusion is remotely possible, and we will have wasted God knows how many weeks, with enough insults and unbelievably long, boring, and repetitious posts, all for nothing.
Don
Thank you very much for this link summarizing card counting systems.
Don is probably correct that the HL w 7m9c will not beat HO2 w ASC. But my goal was to come up with a simple side count to help the HL player and no necessarily to beat the HO2 w ASC. The amount of improvement in the SCORE will determine whether the extra effort in keeping 7m9c with the HL is worth it.
By the way, the reason for so many posts is that a lot of these posts were destructive instead of constructive posts by some players who post the same destructive posts multiple times and contribute no new insights, constructive criticisms, suggestions or legitimate questions. If you got rid of the destructive posts or posts by other asking the same questions over and over again and needless replies to these destructive posts which would have never been necessary if these destructive posts were not posted in the first place and others feeding on these destructive posts, then the number of posts would have been cut in half.
I had stated that my goal was to come up with the simpliest side count possible to help the HL player, not necessarily to beat HO2 w ASC. I was using the HO2 w ASC as a benchmark to see how much HL would improve. Although I would iike to beat HO2 w ASC, with only one side count to the HL that is most likely not possible. To beat HO2 w ASC you probably would need both side counts to the HL, the 7m9c for bettnig and top 6 and the Am6c top 5 which is insurance and hard 16 v 7, 8, 9, T and use HL for everything else.
So even if HL w 7m9c comes up with a 3 or 4, as Don thinks, that is a 30% or 40% improvement between the HL and HO2 w ASC, because of its ease of use of keeping the HL with only betting and six strategy changes, it should be offered as an option to the HL player who would never switch to the HO2 w ASC.
Currently Gronbog is working out some kinks with the top 6 HL w 7m9c indices, as I explained before. But he did do sims with using the 7m9c just for help with betting . Using brc = HL + (1/2)*(7m9c) for betting only and using HL for all strategy changes, for the back counted game, the HL w 7m9c SCORE was over 30% of the way between the HL SCORE and the HO2 w ASC SCORE. So with just help with betting for the back counted game we are already at Don's estimated help of a 3 or 4.
The HO2 w ASC is difficult, being a level two count and you have to keep an Ace side count and learn all new indices. That is why most players stick to the HL and that is why I wanted to make a simple patch to the HL so that the HL player can keep the HL count and still get a significant improvement without having to switch to HO2 w ASC and learn all new indices and probably make mistakes.
With HL w 7m9c (top 6) or HL w Am6c (top 5) or HL w 7m9c and Am6c you are keeping most of the HL for strategy changes, do not have to learn an new count system and only for a select few strategy changes using these side counts. Everything else you keep the HL so no need to learn new indices, a level two count or the estimate ASC as 7m9c and Am6c are exact.
In my opinion, the HL w 7m9c and Am6c is easier than the HO2 w ASC and would probably come close to the HO2 w ASC if LS is offered.
But to keep things simple, just choose one side count, 7m9c or Am6c. If LS is not offered then choose Am6c.
So as stated above my goal was not necessarily to beat the HO2 w ASC but to come up with a very simple patch to the HL that will help the HL count as an option to the many HL players who have no intention of ever switching to HO2 w ASC and learning an entire new set of indices and a complicated level 2 count.
Last edited by bjanalyst; 12-23-2019 at 05:39 AM.
Final HL w 7m9c top 6 indices attached as a PDF and described below.
Gronbog ran CV index generator and generated the indices for the top 6 HL w 7m9c.
Note that the CV generated indices are in very good agreement with my initial LSL generated indices I posted when I first suggested HL w 7m9c. So my LSL indices are correct but I have chosen to use the CV generated indices when there was a discrepancy, which was slight when it occurred.
I am attaching a PDF that explains these indices in greater detail for those who are interested.
So here are the Top 6 using CV generated indices.
Final Selected Top 6 HL w 7m9c indices
Stand hard 14 v T if HL + 3*(7m9c) >= 10*dr
Surrender 8,8 v T DAS if HL + 2*(7m9c) >= 3*dr
Surrender hard 14 v 9 if HL + 2*(7m9c) >= 7*dr
Surrender hard 14 v T if HL + 2*(7m9c) >= 3*dr
Surrender hard 14 v A if HL + 2*(7m9c) >= 6*dr
Surrender hard 13 v T if HL + 2*(7m9c) >= 9*dr
As far as ease of use of keeping the 7m9c with the HL compared to HO2 w ASC or other counts, that is an individual decision. 7m9c is the simplest side count as it counts only two ranks and is a level one count. With practice, a counter should be able to keep both HL and 7m9c. But we need to see the SCORE to determine if the extra effort of keeping the 7m9c with the HL is worth it. And that is what Gronbog will be simulating.
And another advantage of using a side count with the HL is that many, many players use the HL, prefer the HL and know the indices and do not want to learn another count and memorize an entire new set of indices and do not want a level 2 count and try to practice it an use it without making mistakes. A previous post said the Zen was super easy. See what HL players say about the Zen . They will not switch to the Zen count or any other count. They want to keep the HL and that is what I targeted my analysis on.
My goal was to make a simple side count for the HL player who does not want to give up the HL count, which is easy to use and "patch" the HL for those situations where the HL needs help. I doubt many HL players would want to switch to the level 2 counts that were mentioned such as Zen or HO2. They want to keep the HL and that is the whole point of my 7m9c side count with the HL.
Final Selected Top 6 HL w 7m9c indices.pdf
Last edited by bjanalyst; 12-23-2019 at 06:41 PM.
Don is VERY upset with the number of posts here. I told him that if desituctive and inuslting posts were removed, such as this post you just made, the number of posts would be cut in half. You accomplish nothing from this post, you do not ask a legitimate question and you have nohting to contributge with this post, like most of your prior posts.
Also you spoke for other players when you said no one was interested in these results. And I asked to you please speak for yourself and not others. Then other players posted that they were interested in the results. So you were wrong.
So, please, if you have nothing constructive to say, stop posting destructive posts and insulting posts like the one above that accomplishes nothing.
Legitimate constructive posts, new ideas or legitimate questions that I have not answered before are welcome.
Destructive posts, insults or repeat questions that I already answered are not welcome posts.
Just a point: it also would help reduce the size of this thread if not every post repeated or cited a page-long previous post, without deleting the irrelevant paragraphs which are not addressed by the new post. This holds for both sides.
And, of course, you feel ABSOLUTELY COMPELLED to respond to every post that criticizes you. You are completely incapable of demonstrating any kind of self-restraint whatsoever and have a mania to get the last word every time. And I suppose you consider this the perfectly normal behavior of a mature adult. You are obsessive-compulsive. And that's why a thread that has 179 posts should have had nine or 10. Reread your responses. They say the same thing 50 times.
Don
Posting Permissions
-*-
Bookmarks