Illustrious 18 with Counting methods other than Hi-Lo

[21forme]

Reminds me of a 1 liner.
This guy named Schles was in the hospital. This older nurse came back to the nurses station and exclaims - there this guy who has Schles tattooed on his schmekell.

A pretty young thing doesnt believe this and decides to take a look for herself. She returns a few minutes later and exclaims - it doesn’t say Schles, it says Schlesinger.

There's one along those lines that I heard Truman Capote mention on a talk show many years ago:
He was at a book signing event and a buxom young thing asked him to autograph her breasts. He did. Then the girl's boyfriend comes along, all p/o'd and said he wanted his dick autographed. Truman replied, "I guess there's room for initials."

[DSchles]

1 it makes more sense if he is asking if the numbers are the same index numbers per play. Almost all are exact, EXCEPT

2 insurance, yes, the biggest difference. I didnt say it was a BIG difference. I said the BIGGEST difference in any differences between hi lo and halves. Im not talking flooring. I hate that. Flooring means 3.0 and 3.9 are the same. Theyre not.

You're entitled to hate flooring, but it doesn't change the fact that it's the premier way to reckon true count. Your hating it won't change that. And, if you want to tell me that you calculate TC to one decimal place, you're deluding yourself into thinking that it matters. It doesn't.

Don

[RTR2021]

You're entitled to hate flooring, but it doesn't change the fact that it's the premier way to reckon true count. Your hating it won't change that. And, if you want to tell me that you calculate TC to one decimal place, you're deluding yourself into thinking that it matters. It doesn't.

Don

I like the conservatism that flooring puts in my game. It assures I'm not overbetting the count which is important when you do this part time and don't have a huge bankroll.

[DSchles]

I like the conservatism that flooring puts in my game. It assures I'm not overbetting the count which is important when you do this part time and don't have a huge bankroll.

It's more than that. It really doesn't protect you from overbetting. And the concept is widely misunderstood. Index values are not discrete points; rather they are "bins" over which edge is calculated by the system creator, who then expects that you will true count at the table in the same manner that was used for creating the indices in the first place. Claiming that you know that a "precise" index is really 3.3 or 3.6 has been shown by Norm and others repeatedly to be virtually meaningless. It simply doesn't achieve anything at all worthwhile. Not to mention the fact that if, at six-deck in particular, you think that most people can convert running count to true by dividing precisely by the remaining decks (cards?) and generating a decimal value, you're really deluding yourself.

Don

[Freightman]

It's more than that. It really doesn't protect you from overbetting. And the concept is widely misunderstood. Index values are not discrete points; rather they are "bins" over which edge is calculated by the system creator, who then expects that you will true count at the table in the same manner that was used for creating the indices in the first place. Claiming that you know that a "precise" index is really 3.3 or 3.6 has been shown by Norm and others repeatedly to be virtually meaningless. It simply doesn't achieve anything at all worthwhile. Not to mention the fact that if, at six-deck in particular, you think that most people can convert running count to true by dividing precisely by the remaining decks (cards?) and generating a decimal value, you're really deluding yourself.

Don

Don
Brings up an interesting question that you can help with.

Doubling 10v10, index is +4, risk averse is +7. The play is ace sensitive. When I do this, I want a solid +7. I suggested once about relaxing that, significantly, and possibly below index when there is a known ace surplus - thoughts?

[gub11]

While I've got such talented players in my thread, I feel I should ask about bet sizing. Playing my first big game next weekend. With a bankroll of $1k, playing at double deck tables (Barona) with a min bet of $10, what should my unit size be? And how do I choose what to bet based on the count?

[DSchles]

Don
Brings up an interesting question that you can help with.

Doubling 10v10, index is +4, risk averse is +7. The play is ace sensitive. When I do this, I want a solid +7. I suggested once about relaxing that, significantly, and possibly below index when there is a known ace surplus - thoughts?

Sure. Agree. If you're keeping a side of aces, adjustments to indices apply just as well to risk-averse ones as not. The +4 and +7 are generic, with no regard to further information, such as surplus of aces.

I used to double at +4 all the time, but really hated the play. Later on, I more or less "fudged" it, not always waiting for the full +7, but backing off from the too-early +4. Guess it was my own ambivalence towards the risk-averse approach, which I later came to accept as being more important than I originally wanted to believe (see the BJA3 discussion in chapter 13).

Don

[DSchles]

Playing my first big game next weekend. With a bankroll of $1k, playing at double deck tables (Barona) with a min bet of $10, what should my unit size be?

$10 of course. What else could it be? Can't be less; would be disastrous if it were more. As it is, do you really believe that spreading, say, 1-4 or 1-6, $1,000 is going to cut it as a bankroll? Where did you get the notion that that is nearly enough as a bankroll?

Finally, you do understand that the personnel at Barona is among the most highly trained and sophisticated surveillance crew in the business. Frankly, a brand-new counter going in there for the first time, and playing DD no less, seems like a terrible over-match to me. Not sure it's a very good idea.

And how do I choose what to bet based on the count?

The fact that you ask this solidifies my opinion that what you're doing is very premature.

Don

[UncleChoo]

$10 of course. What else could it be? Can't be less; would be disastrous if it were more. As it is, do you really believe that spreading, say, 1-4 or 1-6, $1,000 is going to cut it as a bankroll? Where did you get the notion that that is nearly enough as a bankroll?

Finally, you do understand that the personnel at Barona is among the most highly trained and sophisticated surveillance crew in the business. Frankly, a brand-new counter going in there for the first time, and playing DD no less, seems like a terrible over-match to me. Not sure it's a very good idea.



The fact that you ask this solidifies my opinion that what you're doing is very premature.

Don

Don,

Your comment gave me a confident boost I'm at least making some wise decisions. I live by a few decent DD games, but have been staying away because I haven't mastered camouflage and bet ramping.
Don't want to get my hand caught in the cookie jar.

[gub11]

$10 of course. What else could it be? Can't be less; would be disastrous if it were more. As it is, do you really believe that spreading, say, 1-4 or 1-6, $1,000 is going to cut it as a bankroll?

What do you mean by spreading? I know i'm new, but I have to play somewhere to start and a $10 min bet is the lowest i've been able to find. If you really think playing at all at the point i'm at is premature, could you recommend some reading or some practice strategies? I can confidently play through 3 decks with Wong Halves with perfect basic strategy and, (at this point, i'm still learning more) the fab 4 and 10 out of the illustrious 18.

[refinery]

What do you mean by spreading? I know i'm new, but I have to play somewhere to start and a $10 min bet is the lowest i've been able to find. If you really think playing at all at the point i'm at is premature, could you recommend some reading or some practice strategies? I can confidently play through 3 decks with Wong Halves with perfect basic strategy and, (at this point, i'm still learning more) the fab 4 and 10 out of the illustrious 18.

Play on your computer to start, dodo bird. You're obviously not ready, and especially not using a count like halves.

[PinkChip]

Playing strategy is one side of the medal, betting strategy a different one. I am a beginner counter too, but feel far from being ready for casino, for two main reasons:

1.) Although sticking to a MUCH simpler count than Halves, still lacking some accuracy and speeeeed. Still have much to exercise using Norm's Casino Verite software, also with TV and other distractions such as interrupts, breaks etc.

2.) Lack of bankroll, risk averse play and camouflage. You need at least 5000, better 10000 dollars for 5 or even 10 dollar minbet. 1000 as you describe is a day or week-end bankroll at most. Imagine spreading to 50 or even 100 dollar maxbet, splitting and/or doubling this maxbet (which you are likeky to do more often as the count is high) and then the dealer makes a perfect multicard 21, you lose several maxbets and are suddenly down 500 or more. Or lose several maxbets in a row. You could quickly go bankrupt with only 1000 overall bankroll.

Recently, I played Casino Verite 6 deck shoe 75 percent pen H17 DOA DAS LS RSA with 1000 starting bank, was up to 1100 using Basic Strategy at low counts and being lucky, then finally the "hot" shoes came but I lost nearly all maxbets, putting me down to 400 (now partially recovered to 600). Nice to see the dealer getting all the naturals when you urgently need them, and trying not to go on tilt. That's a teaching lesson and notion of what to expect in real live casino play.