Do you guys scavage the table for extra EV like double on 10/11/9/8 of hands of ploppies or buy insurance on other hands to get 2:1 payout. if so how you open mouth with ploppies and dealers about it? Can it draw unwanted heat from pit?
Do you guys scavage the table for extra EV like double on 10/11/9/8 of hands of ploppies or buy insurance on other hands to get 2:1 payout. if so how you open mouth with ploppies and dealers about it? Can it draw unwanted heat from pit?
Last edited by cyz122409; 10-17-2018 at 11:04 AM.
As a general rule no, but I do make exceptions in certain circumstances.
Most places don't like it when you do this because it is the guys bet who you gave the money to and you are at their mercy when it comes to getting either the bet or the payoff back. many disagreements have occurred over this and the law demands the casino pay the guy whose hand it is.
It can but not usually. Many places just won't allow you to bet on other people's spots. Harrahs AC even denied to pay a $25K payout on the lucky ladies 2 queen of hearts against a dealer BJ because the guys wife "got the chips from him to make the bet". They don't allow any partnerships and at least attempted to not make the payout. I was there but don't know how it was finally resolved. I know they didn't get paid that day. I assume they got paid if they went to gaming enforcement as I told them to. If they booked the bet, they were going to take the chips if it lost, they should be required to pay the bet when it wins. Deciding to void a bet after it wins should never be allowed. That said you can usually get away with it for at least a little while. Doing it does make you memorable and show you are conscious of advantage situations. That can make them look at you closer.
I try to as much as possible. I frame it like I am disgusted that they double for less or don't double down and then cap their double off or put it up next time. I never hurt the ploppy though, as in I would only cap off a double for less on a 9 or soft total, not double the whole thing myself because I don't want to take away her subsequent hits.
Insuring someone else's bet probably isn't a smart move, because you're essentially betting on them to lose. Plus, there can ALWAYS be a misunderstanding where they try to keep the winnings or expect a cut of the profit. As far as the more regular scavenger plays, how much is the EV worth? If your EV is say $100/hour, is it really worth an extra $5 in EV/hour by scavenging when you consider potential heat or misunderstandings where you get shorted? Best way to break the ice is to probably just say something like, "You're doubling down for less? Can I get in on it for the rest?" Obviously be sure to specify that you get your own money plus the appropriate winnings when doing so. But I probably wouldn't go out of my way to create a scavenge opportunity, like telling someone that they should double down when they originally weren't going to, for instance.
Also, if you're going to scavenge seriously / have plenty of opportunities, you should learn which plays are +EV and which aren't. Just because it's not basic strategy doesn't mean it's -EV for the scavenger, and likewise - just because it is basic strategy doesn't make it +EV for the scavenger. EG: You would not want action on splitting 8,8 vs T, but you would want action on doubling 8 vs 6 or soft 19 vs 4.
A friend of mine found a player who was betting chunky black, tipping the dealers tremendously, as well as tipping other players by putting $25-50 on top of their bets frequently, sometimes $100. I believe my friend got in on a few good scavenge opportunity. IIRC he determined it was worth something like $20 in EV per round. After several hours, the generous player was felted, even though he was running really good (hey, tipping and giving away that much money will do that), leaving the dealers and players with all of his money and would-be profits. Obviously this is a complete fluke occurrence, but occasionally a donkey will shit gold, or however the phrase goes.
Last edited by RS; 10-18-2018 at 12:24 AM.
"Everyone wants to be rich, but nobody wants to work for it." -Ryan Howard [The Office]
Bigly profitable if you find the right table and/or ploppy. Manage the ploppies. Once after helping someone cash short to double, and he win. Entire table lets me in on their doubles coz they think I’m lucky that day by always winning those doubles.
Bigly profitable if you manage to find a whale ploppy. I was once betting 10 bucks and doubling for a few blacks on the whales.
Assuming you had to play in a busy table instead of a heads up lightning speed dealer of course.
scavenging is great when you are left with not much to do at a slow table with ploppies doing loads of side bets. The extra EV helps, be nice to ploppies (except the ones that claim you are disrupting the flow for whatever reason hehe )
I think it should be obvious to anyone that while it’s ok to buy someone’s blackjack, it’s certainly not ok to buy someone’s insurance. It’s extremely against ploppy logic and immediately flag yourself out and you risk pissing off people VERY MUCH if you win. How suspicious is it to the pit that someone who doubles on soft 19s buys insurance and buys other people’s insurance. It does not fit in any ploppy profile except one of a CC.
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How do you make sure that the expectations of what you’re doing are clear without holding up the whole table? I once capped a double for less, lost, but the ploppy gave me my money back. Had he won, I’m not sure I would’ve gotten my part of the profit. I thought I was placing a bet on his hand, but I think he thought that I was lending him some money ( he was doubling for less because he was out of chips And didn’t want to go into his pocket).
I avoid those players whose command of English seems limited.
I make it clear, and have the player acknowledge, that we split 50:50 if we win (on the entire hand if it's a split). If the person doesn't seem to get it, or appears, really dumb, I don't do it.
In the event of a miscommunication, NEVER get the casino involved in trying to resolve the dispute.
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