A brief trip Las Vegas trip report and OSN

[BoSox]

What is so wrong about testing a long held belief? Someone has to dare to test it and I am well equipped because I can live without BJ if its true. On the other hand, my experiences can help those part timers, newbie's to determine what to do given what happens to me. Is it that big a problem if you play rated while learning and while gaining experience? Does OSN mean you cannot play anywhere even at small stakes? What is the damage?

The trouble is some of those new part-timers who are learning are going to be successful and will want to increase levels of play. Some of whom were already barely tolerated to begin with, and now think that their new level of play is going to be just fine WRONG! Least forgotten they have a track record to reflect upon by the casinos, who not only see that you are a winning player but also see your wins are increasing and reflect that your skill is also getting better. So just when the player was ready for bigger and better things he/she gets the boot right up the ass, and they made it easy by handing that card in. I hope they enjoyed the previous comps.

[mcallister3200]

Also Zee,
You have some demographic stuff that works in your favor or at least doesn’t work against you that many who might read your posts don’t. You really have to mess up or step in the wrong place (river shitty and NYNY both qualify) for the most part, to run into trouble at your stakes and demographic. A 30 year old WM playing 2-3x your stakes would have quite different experiences.

[Ikthor]

and now in OSN, I can expect a series of back offs and counter measures and more. So far, nothing has happened to me. Moreover, the mail (both emails and regular mail) continues to come with offers. Weeks after I was put on OSN, I handed my players card in Las Vegas to see the reaction. I was placed on a higher tier at one casino, given a newer card so I can exit parking lots at another and a comped room/suite on the higher floors with a fantastic view.

Hard to argue some free Kung Pao Chicken and random rooms isn't worth risking your entire ability to play. /smack

protip: if you want comps play other games. or maybe play 4h of flat bet blackjack with no counting at one of the big chains in a place you don't frequent (or better yet video poker). Keep the offers coming. Offers generally go a year or so post stopping play. Still play UNRATED everywhere you count. Repeat when offers needed.

Aw well...it's all cool and every player has different priorities. That's ok. Just don't be advising ppl or act like you're testing the expert status quo when you're not even above stakes which ppl look in OSN. If you were playing black, rated, and in OSN you'd be nailed in very short order.

You're just flying under the radar due to stakes. That will end. Badly.

[Red Green]

People see what YOU let them see.

Brilliant. If you use that standard to measure your every action, you are on the path to invisibility.


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[Freightman]

Zee
You are appreciated more as a buffoon as opposed to a purveyor of not so solid advice.

https://youtu.be/kBcZsc24rm0
Language caution. Adam Sandler at his best. I have to admit, the voice he uses reminds me of this Hispanic dude who played next to me at Wild West a few years ago. Guy was really drunk and hilarious. He was threatened with removal. I got coffee into him, and my caring attitude got me a nice spread on a dd game. Thus was awhile back.

[BoSox]

Originally Posted by moses
People see what YOU let them see.

Red Green wrote:
Brilliant. If you use that standard to measure your every action, you are on the path to invisibility.

That is, in fact, the objective, besides winning money when the powerful casino is off balance and vulnerable "Snyder".

But I seriously doubt one can enjoy comps if kicking the crap out of them in sessions for very long. From their perspective, why do they need you?

Moses, I could not agree more. Many people are completely blind to that fact, and miss the logic staring them right in the face. Good work Moses, today the inside knowledge of a casino running its business is often overlooked by the new know-it-alls.

[Freightman]

Moses, I could not agree more. Many people are completely blind to that fact, and miss the logic staring them right in the face. Good work Moses, today the inside knowledge of a casino running its business is often overlooked by the new know-it-alls.

House protocols vary from casino to casino. If we're lucky, we can cultivate an inside contact that can give us a glimpse on a particular Store. Included in that glimpse would be particular critters hostile to your cause. I have a couple of such contacts, which I find to be very useful.

[Red Green]

I think elsewhere Moses said he can spot a counter from a mile away. I think what that means is you can spot a counter who doesn’t care to practice invisibility. I would think the best counters have an act (regardless of whether it is an act or just who they are) that make them look like a regular patron or a non-counter stereotype. They use play and bet cover so a dealer or critter can’t figure out what exactly they’re doing and if strong enough, perhaps good enough to confuse the EITS software? Invisible = undercover like a spy dropped into enemy territory: you look, sound and act like a local all the while getting what you need. Maybe the very best counters even get comped for their action which they’ve made look like a losing effort? I don’t have enough practical experience to say, but I’ve heard the lessons sounded loudly to play unrated. It does beg the question whether an expert of the craft can fool the house?


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[ZeeBabar]

Get in. Get paid. Get Out. Beware of the bread crumbs you leave behind.

Moses, my point is not to say you always play rated. You can always start playing anonymously at a given point in your career. If you start playing higher stakes, if you start having consistent success at a particular store of a particular chain. You might play rated in the one casino town but when you visit its cousin casino, you can do it differently.

For example, I play rated at one casino on a trip to LV, if I win, when I return at the next shift, and play anonymously.

There are nuances and acts to it.

[umbrellaman]

To begin with, I was notified and sent a copy of an OSN report with my picture and that of my car, licence plate etc.

How did you get your hands on this anyway? If you're willing to say.

[BJGenius007]

I think elsewhere Moses said he can spot a counter from a mile away.

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At my local stores, 10% of the dealers have concluded I am a counter. They are not counting with me but judged based on the fact that I won a lot on my big bets. 25% of the dealers think I am extremely lucky. 65% of the dealers just deal the cards. They don't have the energy to gossip or profile the players.

[RCJH]

I am reminded of my father saying "Dumb people learn from their own mistakes. Smart people learn from other people's mistakes."
IMHO, being in OSN isn't the end of the world, but it certainly isn't a positive. If biometrica ever gets ahold of the entries, people will be BO'd before they buy in. GETTING LISTED IN OSN IS TO BE AVOIDED.
The problem, Zee, is you're telling people it's okay to play rated. It is--if you are 1. A losing player, 2. A non-AP and non-counter, or 3. A gambler playing for comps. (Technically I suppose #2 and #3 could be the same...)
If you want to count cards, however, you should not play rated. Your experiment is meaningless. There are countless people here--and I am one of them--who would strongly advise up and coming counters to avoid giving ID. It's almost like you are trying to convince YOURSELF it's okay; that you didn't mess up, and you can still reap the rewards of a card.
We told you it was a bad idea. You did it anyway.
Now you're in OSN. We said lay low. You call and ask for comps.
I don't care I you play rated, unrated, under a fake name, or with a costume. If it works for you, great. Get that money. But you are giving bad advice.

[San Jose Bella]

Get in. Get paid. Get Out. Beware of the bread crumbs you leave behind.

Zee. Similar to what Im saying. Suppose you win 10 straight sessions of $500 each. They pull up your account and you are up $5000 without a loss in your last ten sessions. However, you were down $500 in each session at one time. But you continued to grind away. If you wouldve cashed out, you'd show some losses mixed in but the end results doesnt change. Which looks better at a quick glance on a computer screen?

Freighter "Give the people what they want" The O'Jays

10 sessions x 300 hands per = 3000. Record 10-0

30 sessions x 100 hands = 3000.
Record 16-6-8.

It comes from the old adage. "People only know what you tell them." Now in a players card, they see what is on the screen before them. So let them see what you are in control of them seeing. Sorry I can't go beyond that.

When they pull my account, they know exactly how much I lost each time?