casinos are about as unethical as it comes.
i'd light the money on fire from a mistake at the blackjack table before i brought it to their attention.
Yes, yes, YESSSS, here is someone that knows the casinos. Terry if your as old as dirt and this is what you have learnt, then maybe you have had your eyes shut and haven't seen things that go on in most or all casinos. I have seen casinos cheat, I have seen dealers cheat, I have seen players abused, back roomed, I have known personally dealers that wait for players to turn their attention away from the game, and try and steal bets.
There is a poker story about farmer Terri who came home to his wife one night. Says, "honey I have lost everything, but at least they didn't bluff me!"
I had a girlfriend that had this saying, would you prefer to be a clever thief, or a honest fool?
Last edited by pilotzone; 05-19-2017 at 09:25 PM.
Just because someone disagrees with you doesn't make them wrong when it comes to personal ethics. People feel as strongly about your opinion as you do theirs, KevinB. Some people are fine taking all they can get. Some people draw distinctions and capitalize on certain mistakes and not others. Some need to correct all the things. We're all different and the world goes 'round. There are others like Terry who value sleeping well at night. I waffle back and forth between chaotic neutral and lawful good depending on my mood.
Here's my take on dealer mispays.
If you call the pit to fix a dealer mislay error in your favor, and the dealer gets into trouble because of it, don't call the critter, unless of course, you don't like the dealer.
If the dealer does not get into trouble, only return if the amount is low, and the store is local to you. If it's on a travel route, who cares - keep it.
Most mispays are $25 or less. I've had a few $100 to $200 errors in my time. They're nice when they happen. I've also played party pits, where dumb dealers are the rule VS the xception. I've had 1 massive payout error around 2 or 2.2 k, involving an experienced dealer who had just pissed me off, was in a local store (at the time). Situation was such that it could be explained away, and it was never returned.
Dealer mispays are 1 way if achieving justice on really shitty rulings, or where the pit in general, just doesnt give a shit.
If it isn't intentionally done to screw you the dealer errors should go half and half for you and against you. The odds are you aren't catching all the dealer errors against you no matter how much you want to think otherwise. Taking dealer errors in your favor evens this out and may make sure you profit from them. The house made the mistake. They should not profit from it. It is like my mom had one of us cut the cake in half and the other got to choose which piece he wanted. That is the fair way to do it. You don't get to decide when and how dealer errors occur. You should get to decide whether to allow the error or point it out. It is only fair.
[QUOTE=Fenix;221737]Just because someone disagrees with you doesn't make them wrong when it comes to personal ethics.
Who's this now talking to me, the one who taught herself blackjack?
Actually Terry said he points out all of the dealer mistakes, and then commented that if that makes him a fool, then he's a fool, but he can sleep well. I don't disagree with him at all on that point about being a fool!
If he wants to give back the money it costs me nothing, but if you think that I am going to call him smart for doing so, don't hold you breath!
This like many things people argue like it is black and white is actually all a matter of opinion. Insecure people and bullies need everyone else to agree with them, while open minded people present their own position and respect other peoples and usually positions as valid from the other person's perspective. People that have lost an argument or have a weak argument always resort to derogatory comments and name calling. This skill of discerning a persons position or personality by the way they defend their position and how they respect others is an important skill for anyone moderating a debate. Judges, councilors, and others that who are regularly tasked at assessing a situation are well aware of these tendencies.
I said I was done with this thread. But I guess I lied about that.
Here is my question: Let's say you go to the store. You buy an item for $8.00. You give the cashier $10, and he/she gives you $12.00 in change, because they mistakenly thought you gave them a $20.
Do you point out the error and return the $10 mistakenly given to you? Why or why not? And if you don't feel this is analogous to the dealer paying you on a push <or some similar dealer error>, please explain why you feel the two situations are different.
This is offered as an "honest" question as to how someone would behave in a non-casino environment, their reason for doing so, and how it compares (or does not compare) to a casino.
Thanks.
LoL. Now you still go to the losers tactic of name calling and then say I don't like you. I don't even know you. You don't have many posts so I have no opinion on you. I give you advice so that you can present your positions in a way that is taken more seriously but you take it personal. People that are good at discerning where the truth lies truly use that as an important evaluation tool. You are either a troll or too thin skinned for the AP business. A good AP is constantly learning from everything that happens around him. A good AP doesn't take things personal and doesn't develop hatreds or any other emotion as they get in the way of sound judgement. The tenor of all your posts in this thread calls these abilities into question. This is not an attack but rather a criticism on how to become a better AP. Put away your tendency to react in an emotional knee jerk reaction to everything and try to take it that way this time.
Not sure if I agree with your statement that a store and a casino are conceptually different. But, I'll think about that one.
As I said in an earlier post, I DO keep my mouth shut when the type of error your describe impacts others at the table. If the error rewards others in addition to myself, I remain quiet. Likewise, if I see that another player receives a payment in error e.g., a payoff when it was a push, I also keep quiet. I only correct the dealer when the payoff error is limited to my hand. I once saw a payoff error so egregious I had to suspect the dealer and player were in collusion. However, I remained quiet.
I'm not even sure if that's a totally consistent position. But, at some level I feel each person gets to play their own hand, and it is also up to each person to decide how to handle dealer errors.
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