Surrender your chips!

[Bricklayer]

Hey guys, I was wondering seeing if we can do a quick surrender exercise. I'm trying to up my game and I would like any good DL info on this topic. I know there is early and late. Are there any tables to look at that will help? What's the edge if done properly? Thanks all.

[Three]

Surrender is worth a lot more to counters because they will usually be surrendering big bets. This aids in 2 ways. First you save a lot of EV but second, and more important, the variance associated with making big bets is greatly reduced. If you use a supermax bet you may want to employ it when a lot of the rare surrender indices kick in. These are indices many people don't even bother to learn. The power of zero variance when you surrender during the highest variance situations should make all positive surrender indices worth knowing no matter how large the index. This is why your ramp increases when surrender is added to the rules. The more you use surrender as a tool the more your ramp and EV increase. Remember optimal bet is based on both EV and variance. Higher EV or lower variance increases your optimal bet. Both at the same time as with surrender has a double barrel effect. Variance has a lot more room for change than EV.

[Freightman]

3 has pretty much hit it. I'll say something he said, but in a different way - to make the meaning clear.

Surrender, when properly used, will add about 1/3 to your win rate.

Bricklayer, I'm guessing your fairly new. 3 also alluded to increased ramp with (proper) use of surrender. If I'm right, just keep it simple for now - regardless if the fact that he's (technically) right.

[Freightman]

Didn't answer one if your questions - sorry.

You didn't specify your count system. If hi lo, which many newbies start with - Wongs Professional Blackjack has some excellent surrender tables.

[Bricklayer]

I'm not a CC yet...how about a straight up basic strategy player...is there and edge for beginners to drool over to get them started?

[Three]

I'm not a CC yet...how about a straight up basic strategy player...is there and edge for beginners to drool over to get them started?

Very small decrease in HE for BS players.

[Zach Black]

The house has the edge over beginners. Late surrender for a flat betting basic strategy player reduces the house edge by 0.07% on a 6D H17 game.

If you want the basic strategy tables that include surrender go here and adjust the rules; https://www.blackjackinfo.com/blackj...rategy-engine/

[Meistro123]

learn how to count cards its not that hard

[Freightman]

learn how to count cards its not that hard

Absolutely true. The problem for those, especially those who fail, is knowing how to properly utilize that info.

[ZenMaster_Flash]

"Late surrender for a flat betting basic strategy player reduces the house edge by 0.07% on a 6D game."

It is good that you included "flat-betting" as the value of
L.S. is proportional to the width of the betting spread.

[gm7lp]

for BS there are 4.

16 vs A
16 vs 10
15 vs 10
15 vs A

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[gm7lp]

sorry messed that up. its

16 vs 9
16 vs 10
16 vs A
15 vs 10

haha. so used to indices

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[Meistro123]

There are 4 bs surrenders in a late surrender S17 game. In a late surrender H17 game, you should add 15 v A and 17 v A as well.