Settling the "Which count?" arguments

**ZenMaster_Flash** · 07-03-2015, 05:41 PM

"1.5 times as important" … is a 50% increment. That is H U G E

The more complex the count the more that figure increases !!

**ZenMaster_Flash** · 07-04-2015, 08:17 AM

Originally Posted by moses

Seems like a good spot in a Double Deck game. It appears value numbers could grow rather large in multi deck games...which is why you employ Hi Opt II?

I use Hi-Opt II because it is the best without side-counting MANY ranks.

See: "Modern Blackjack" Vol. II by (our benefactor) Norm Wattenberger

**Three** · 07-05-2015, 10:47 PM

Originally Posted by bjarg

Hold your horses there Moses.
Unless Im misinterpreting you, you seem to be implying that Tthree or Tarzan play at a higher evel of advantage than those of us who use a simple count.
This is plain wrong.
Since I wont speak for others, I can assure you that I play this game at levels of advantage that FAR surpass those that can be achieved by this super counts.

I can vouch for Bjarg here. I am not sure he knows enough about our counts to make these remarks but techniques like Sting and many other techniques though out the casino can get a much higher advantage than either of our approaches. One component of advantage that needs to be considered is what I like to call the ride. That is the swings involved in realizing an advantage. I don't know enough about Bjarg's techniques to make an accurate comparison any more than he does about mine for any comparison but I think that may be one of my counts strongest assets. Unfortunately the software doesn't allow for any hard numbers here. We have focused on what is needed to play in the casino first, the advantage estimates for making a betting matrix. This project has a long way to go but the results so far has been amazing.

**Three** · 07-05-2015, 11:36 PM

Originally Posted by bjarg

I feel obligated to tell you though that I (and many others) can play and track two pass shuffles (plugs included) so unless there's a casino that uses a 3 pass shuffle or that washes the cards after every shoe (like some casinos do against certain players) I can play and track against almost every casino in the world, even the ones you play at.

I have only seen ASM's at almost every casino I visit in my region. Granted if I required a hand shuffle I would know where they all were. Only 1 casino I know has only hand shuffled games. Most won't even hand shuffle if an ASM breaks. They get a maintenance guy to swap it out. But like I said I don't look for the hand shuffle games so there might be some under my nose I am not noticing.

**Gramazeka** · 07-06-2015, 01:42 AM

Originally Posted by Tthree

I can vouch for Bjarg here. I am not sure he knows enough about our counts to make these remarks but techniques like Sting and many other techniques thought the casino can get a much higher advantage than either of our approaches. On e component of advantage that needs to be considered is what I like to call the ride. That is the swings involved in realizing an advantage. I don't know enough about Bjarg's techniques to make an accurate comparison any more than he does about mine for any comparison but I think that may be one of my counts strongest assets. Unfortunately the software doesn't allow for any hard numbers here. We have focused on what is needed to play in the casino first, the advantage estimates for making a betting matrix. This project has a long way to go but the results so far has been amazing.

Bingo!

+1000

**Three** · 07-06-2015, 12:03 PM

Yopp, There seems to be some kind of misunderstanding you have with my posts. I meant no offense and simply tried to put all possibilities out there and made no intended inference about what you may or may not do. I only said you would find yourself eventually at one point or the other. I tried not to infer anything and certainly meant no offense. I know people see the world as a reflection of themselves and you said you have done some kind of sideways insult to others. I don't do that so if you believe I did it was simply a misunderstanding. As you can see from the posts I have made I believe everyone should play the count that best fits them and the games they will play. I am not a everyone must play this count like so many here are. Only you know your strengths and weaknesses and what games you plan on attacking. It would be absurd for me to assume I know anything about you to say you must use this count or will fail at that count. That is what many others here are about but not me. You know your strengths and weaknesses so go with what you think is best. The one thing that is clear to me is you have the drive to learn things others with less drive would give up on. I wish you the best in whatever count you decide to pursue. I am sure whether it is HIOPT2/ASC, Tarzan Count or Hilo that you will keep at it until you get it down cold. Is that clear enough? I have no reason to doubt your capabilities so don't try to give me one.

Sorry about the you taking offense. I meant nothing by what I said. Perhaps the tone of this thread influenced how you perceived my posts. I meant no offense to anything I said.

**ZeeBabar** · 07-07-2015, 09:06 AM

Originally Posted by Tthree

Yopp, There seems to be some kind of misunderstanding you have with my posts. I meant no offense and simply tried to put all possibilities out there and made no intended inference about what you may or may not do. I only said you would find yourself eventually at one point or the other. I tried not to infer anything and certainly meant no offense. I know people see the world as a reflection of themselves and you said you have done some kind of sideways insult to others. I don't do that so if you believe I did it was simply a misunderstanding. As you can see from the posts I have made I believe everyone should play the count that best fits them and the games they will play. I am not a everyone must play this count like so many here are. Only you know your strengths and weaknesses and what games you plan on attacking. It would be absurd for me to assume I know anything about you to say you must use this count or will fail at that count. That is what many others here are about but not me. You know your strengths and weaknesses so go with what you think is best. The one thing that is clear to me is you have the drive to learn things others with less drive would give up on. I wish you the best in whatever count you decide to pursue. I am sure whether it is HIOPT2/ASC, Tarzan Count or Hilo that you will keep at it until you get it down cold. Is that clear enough? I have no reason to doubt your capabilities so don't try to give me one.

Sorry about the you taking offense. I meant nothing by what I said. Perhaps the tone of this thread influenced how you perceived my posts. I meant no offense to anything I said.

I think there is a time and place when you should consider changing to a more optimal count but it is NOT for a relative newbie or one with little experience. For a Newbie to do this, to me, is the run of the mill club golf player seeing what brand of clubs a Tiger Woods or top Player is using at Augusta and then considering switching to that brand. My advice is that if you know a count, get a better understanding and experience with the count you have, learn about bet spreads, when to play 2 hands, ROR, heat, playing at different markets (Las Vegas to the Midwest to the East coast, to local casinos) and after 2-3 years, consider the higher, better counts.

**Ronster** · 12-11-2016, 11:15 AM

Hi all....I use Ralph Stricker's "Silver Fox" strategy. I spread 1 to 3 units on a SD & DD quarter table, and I modify basic accordingly. I would love to hear any and all comments on my approach. Also, Silver Fox vs Hi Lo,
...Which of the two do you think is more accurate?...And views on counting 9's as a minus 1 (as in Silver Fox) , vs counting 9's as 0 (as in Hi Lo)?

**ZenMaster_Flash** · 12-11-2016, 01:16 PM

Ronster,

This is a no-brainer, as your chosen count
is about the weakest count in existence.

**ZenMaster_Flash** · 12-12-2016, 07:14 AM

Originally Posted by moo321

"For the absolute best shoe game count: RPC/FELT"

Bolderdash ! Hi-Opt II outperforms the competition.

**Norm** · 12-12-2016, 07:48 AM

There is no one best count. Period.

**Three** · 12-12-2016, 09:45 AM

You are still trying to recommend a count. You miss the point. There is no answer to what count is best because it all depends...

**DSchles** · 12-12-2016, 10:46 AM

"I ask them once why they never switched. The answer was because they never found anything better."

That's not quite true. RPC is not the "best" count. SCORE demonstrates that clearly. I never switched because I recognized early on that I was going to play shoe games with large spreads and that RPC's very high BC suited my needs well and was, in fact "better" than the level-1 Hi-Lo. So that move up was worth my time and effort. What's more, moving from Hi-Lo to RPC is child's play.

Could I have gone into further complexity? Sure. Did I feel the need? Not at all.

Don