Anyone play here in Laughlin NV?

[Ronster]

I don't spread 50 to 100, as, yes, it WILL generate a little heat here on the river.....But, $25 to $50 they like as long as you don't overstay your welcome....And a 1 to 2 quarter spread will generate a 2 top bet win per hour or more on average, which equates to $100 + per hour....Depending I suppose on what c you are using....The one I use does not count A's, 2's or 8's......

[Ronster]

One of us is delusional for certain, and for certain it is not yours truly....I have been using a 2:1 quarter spread for many many years, and not only is it a winning strategy, it reduces the swing in your BR tremendously......different strokes for different folks I guess....BTW, I thought this forum was to bounce ideas/camaraderie etc, and not for insults?

[mofungoo]

A strong count with S17 DAS 75% pen heads up can yield 2 units/hr with a 1-2 spread..

[LVBear584]

A strong count with S17 DAS 75% pen heads up can yield 2 units/hr with a 1-2 spread..

There is no such single-deck game in Laughlin.

[Ryemo]

One of us is delusional for certain, and for certain it is not yours truly....I have been using a 2:1 quarter spread for many many years, and not only is it a winning strategy, it reduces the swing in your BR tremendously......different strokes for different folks I guess....BTW, I thought this forum was to bounce ideas/camaraderie etc, and not for insults?

I ran a quick SIM on CVCX for a $25 unit, spreading $25 to $50 on a decent SD game. Unless you're getting a deeply delt game with good rules, then you're definitely not getting $100+ per hour (not even close). And whoever mentioned getting 240 rounds/hr heads-up is also suffering from wishful thinking.

Bottom line; Laughlin sucks for straight counting. I've seen the games there and I wasn't impressed. I would completely bypass that town and head for Vegas, not that Vegas much better either. Vegas is really going down hill for straight counting too. But at least SOME of their casinos have a higher tolerance and they have a ton of casinos concentrated in one area. In Vegas, there's more quantity vs quality.

[Zach Black]

With a 1-2 spread, H17 D10 single deck, hi-lo, 39 of 52 dealt, the SCORE is 21.12 per table 10.140 (page 286) in BJA 3.

I don't see how you win $100/hour with any count system with these rules, betting $25-$50, even if you have a lightning fast dealer, and this level of great pen.

[Ronster]

Right you are Moses....I'm new here and in light of the snarky replies, am reconsidering the wisdom of even posting on the site....And as an aside, for years I played w/o using a players card as I wanted to avoid their compilation of personal info/play etc, but have found that once one moves up the ladder to the quarter level and higher, it is counter intuitive NOT to hand them a card as it makes them inquisitive as to why anyone, especially a LEGITIMATE high-end player, would choose not to reap their bennies.....So now I just hold my nose and do it, but I ramp up my camouflage by being fastidious in where I play, how often and what shifts......I've also noticed on some threads that a few players seem to be superstitious when it comes to luck.....I still maintain that luck is the residue of design.....And good luck to you Moses.....

[Ronster]

So tell me Ryemo.....Other than Harrah's, where they burn 15 or more cards and pay 6:5, why do you think Laughlin sucks?.....One joint is mostly all SD's with a .47 advantage, and the other joints all have favorable DD games with about 65 to 70% pen, no winning heat with the exception of the Nugget, what is not to like????? You must have been double parked when you looked Laughlin over as your depiction of conditions is sorely lacking..........

I ran a quick SIM on CVCX for a $25 unit, spreading $25 to $50 on a decent SD game. Unless you're getting a deeply delt game with good rules, then you're definitely not getting $100+ per hour (not even close). And whoever mentioned getting 240 rounds/hr heads-up is also suffering from wishful thinking.

Bottom line; Laughlin sucks for straight counting. I've seen the games there and I wasn't impressed. I would completely bypass that town and head for Vegas, not that Vegas much better either. Vegas is really going down hill for straight counting too. But at least SOME of their casinos have a higher tolerance and they have a ton of casinos concentrated in one area. In Vegas, there's more quantity vs quality.

[LVBear584]

So tell me Ryemo.....Other than Harrah's, where they burn 15 or more cards and pay 6:5, why do you think Laughlin sucks?.....One joint is mostly all SD's with a .47 advantage, and the other joints all have favorable DD games with about 65 to 70% pen, no winning heat with the exception of the Nugget, what is not to like????? You must have been double parked when you looked Laughlin over as your depiction of conditions is sorely lacking..........

Ryemo can speak for himself, but I will add that there is stifling heat everywhere if you play anything above chump change. Dumps like the Aquarius and Tropicana shudder at the thought of a few green chips hitting the felt.

I learned to play in Laughlin in the late 1990's, when Riverside had about thirty good tables. What does it have now, maybe a half dozen with only one or two open most of the time, managed to full? The place is a sad shadow of its former self. Perhaps for very low stakes, Laughlin can still be playable, but not for worthwhile money. Being only a 90-minute drive away, I wish it wasn't so, but it is.

If you've found a way to slowly milk the Laughlin sweatshops over a long period of time, good for you. Being local and at age 74, you might find it worth your while to play at a much lower hourly EV than required by most anyone who would travel there to play.

[Ronster]

A 25 to 50 spread, and winning $100 + per hour, is merely winning 2 top bets per hour Zach, which is do-able with just about any strategy that doesn't incorporate A's into the c. Unless of course it's someone that is not bringing enough to the table from jump. Would you not agree?....If not, tell me how many top bets per hour you grind out?...I am speaking of course heads up, or maybe one other player on a quarter table with a fairly fast dealer. BTW I use the Canfield Expert system........

With a 1-2 spread, H17 D10 single deck, hi-lo, 39 of 52 dealt, the SCORE is 21.12 per table 10.140 (page 286) in BJA 3.

I don't see how you win $100/hour with any count system with these rules, betting $25-$50, even if you have a lightning fast dealer, and this level of great pen.

[Ryemo]

So tell me Ryemo.....Other than Harrah's, where they burn 15 or more cards and pay 6:5, why do you think Laughlin sucks?.....One joint is mostly all SD's with a .47 advantage, and the other joints all have favorable DD games with about 65 to 70% pen, no winning heat with the exception of the Nugget, what is not to like????? You must have been double parked when you looked Laughlin over as your depiction of conditions is sorely lacking..........

Laughlin will not tolerate action. Also the game selection and rules I saw weren't favorable. And my definition of "action" might be different than yours. Your top bet is $50 (which is fine), but mine is 2x$500. That would never fly in Laughlin. Now if I can find a good game (with good conditions) that will allow me to make a sufficient hourly rate, while using a tighter spread and a lower top bet, then I will. But I have to travel to play, as I can no longer play locally. So If I'm traveling, I have expenses to cover. Unfortunately, a 2:1 spread isn't going to do it for me. But if you're local and you can slowly milk them, go for it. More for you! Lol

But nonetheless, I still ran the SIM, and I'm telling you that your expectations of $100+/hr with the conditions you outlined is unrealistic. Moses might be right to an extent... SIMs aren't everything, but this is pretty basic. CVCX will tell you what your game is worth, and I'm just saying that I don't think it's worth nearly as much as you think.

[Ronster]

Hard to believe folks can be so much as 180 off on Laughlin BJ playing conditions.....I started out learning 36/16 from Thorpe back in the 60's. I was dealing craps/BJ at Harrah's at that time, and Beat the Dealer was required reading to keep your job. I have dealt BJ, craps and roulette from one end of the state to another back when I was a youngster, and one thing I pride myself on is the ability to analyze playing conditions. In a way it pleases me that so many of you have such a dim view of Lauglin as it keeps the player traffic down. And you are wrong about the heat here, that is if you keep your play to a 1 to 2 spread with an occasional add-on to 3 units when the time is right. Maybe you consider 25 to 50 with a two top bet win per hour chump change, but it's anything but in my book. And if you think the Riverside is anything but a draw station you sorely mistaken.......just sayin..........

Ryemo can speak for himself, but I will add that there is stifling heat everywhere if you play anything above chump change. Dumps like the Aquarius and Tropicana shudder at the thought of a few green chips hitting the felt.

I learned to play in Laughlin in the late 1990's, when Riverside had about thirty good tables. What does it have now, maybe a half dozen with only one or two open most of the time, managed to full? The place is a sad shadow of its former self. Perhaps for very low stakes, Laughlin can still be playable, but not for worthwhile money. Being only a 90-minute drive away, I wish it wasn't so, but it is.

If you've found a way to slowly milk the Laughlin sweatshops over a long period of time, good for you. Being local and at age 74, you might find it worth your while to play at a much lower hourly EV than required by most anyone who would travel there to play.

[LVBear584]

Hard to believe folks can be so much as 180 off on Laughlin BJ playing conditions.....I started out learning 36/16 from Thorpe back in the 60's. I was dealing craps/BJ at Harrah's at that time, and Beat the Dealer was required reading to keep your job. I have dealt BJ, craps and roulette from one end of the state to another back when I was a youngster, and one thing I pride myself on is the ability to analyze playing conditions. In a way it pleases me that so many of you have such a dim view of Laughlin as it keeps the player traffic down. And you are wrong about the heat here, that is if you keep your play to a 1 to 2 spread with an occasional add-on to 3 units when the time is right. Maybe you consider 25 to 50 with a two top bet win per hour chump change, but it's anything but in my book. And if you think the Riverside is anything but a draw station you sorely mistaken.......just sayin..........

Yes, sorry to say I (and almost all traveling players) have to consider 25 to 50 to be chump change, though more nicely expressed as "tiny stakes." From the BJ21.com Glossary:

Stakes. The normal bet levels of a particular player. There is no exact definition, but a scale of normal bet levels that is commonly accepted is:
Maximum bet of under $100 = tiny stakes
Maximum bet of at least $100 but less than $300 = low stakes
Maximum bet of at least $300 but less than $500 = moderate stakes
Maximum bet of $500 and above = high stakes

The trouble with even the $100 hourly figure you claim is that there are not enough hours in the day to make it worthwhile. I generally consider EV of $1,000 per day to be the minimum that is worth my time to travel. And I don't want to sit at tables for ten hours a day, even if that would be possible. Getting four green chips ahead and moving on isn't possible either -- that could happen in a couple of hands, leaving me $100 ahead but an EV of pennies. Such play is not sustainable or worthwhile to anyone but locals. Serious play must be measured by EV and expenses, not just an hourly rate viewed in a vacuum.

As moses essentially pointed out, if you have a milking system there and you are happy with the tiny stakes, great for you. Congratulations, and be glad that traveling players cannot even cover expenses playing at that level and method, as correctly noted by Ryemo. You have the town mostly to yourself, and will likely continue to have it, except for the occasional red-chip grinder who might want to visit. I will continue to make my annual visit, as I've done for years now, to make sure I'm not missing anything. I usually leave in disgust, after a few blasts that immediately start the phone calls and the all-too-familiar nasty stares from the pit personnel.