Is HiLo adequate for this proposed trip?

[Drewster]

Hello all,
So a question that's risen on my mind. I have a trip coming up fairly soon(about a month away roughly) and will be almost exclusively playing double deck unless the heat gets too much. The games rules are: S17, DAS, DAO, NMS, and about 55-60% pen. The other options include a nearby 6D that's same rules and another 6decker at a nearby casino all the same rules plus LS. Both 6D have roughly 75%, maybe 80% with a good dealer and some tips. For 6D I plan to Wong out a true count -1. All tables have 10 min 500 max. 6D might even go down to 5 min. So to the actual question is HiLo good enough? I have memorized indexes from -5 to 10 so that when I can't Wong out in the DD I'll still make good playing decisions even though HiLo has a low P.E. My other option would be instead to push back the trip and focus entirely on Zen and its indices. Trip bankroll(which will also be the session bankroll) is set at 4000. Plan on using 1-8 spread in DD and 1-16 spread in 6D. These spreads have been tolerated at both casino locations in all past trips, however have never had a truly large win either. Alright so please share your thoughts any and all criticisms will be greatly appreciated. Thank you for your time.

[ZeeBabar]

I play HiLo and I play 80% DD games, 20% 6D games. Rules I play are worse (H17, no S etc) but pen is better. HiLo is perfectly adequate for both. I get 65%-70% pen in DD and usually leave if table at DD game exceeds 2 other players.

I rarely do cover plays, keep my spread at $25-$150 (ocassionally $175) or play 2 hands with max of $125 per hand, drop to one hand when count gets below TC-2 in DD games. Where I play, there is minimum or no heat as long as you keep max bet under $200.

I am currently on my best short positive streak, having lost 1 session ($700), won 4 others ($1300 to $2300).

i would advise against changing counts a month before your trip. I am too old to change counts.

[Drewster]

I play HiLo and I play 80% DD games, 20% 6D games. Rules I play are worse (H17, no S etc) but pen is better. HiLo is perfectly adequate for both. I get 65%-70% pen in DD and usually leave if table at DD game exceeds 2 other players.

I rarely do cover plays, keep my spread at $25-$150 (ocassionally $175) or play 2 hands with max of $125 per hand, drop to one hand when count gets below TC-2 in DD games. Where I play, there is minimum or no heat as long as you keep max bet under $200.

I am currently on my best short positive streak, having lost 1 session ($700), won 4 others ($1300 to $2300).

i would advise against changing counts a month before your trip. I am too old to change counts.

Thank you for your advice. Does your DD have no mid shoe? Leaving at a TC-2 seems like it would severely limit your playing time. If you don't mind what general area are you in that your managing that much pen? Also have you tried raising your bet to see if you can get better rules? Seems like if your wonging that aggressively you could have a smaller spread possibly. But I'm just a rookie so please excuse my suggestions if they're wrong or naive. Also if I did switch counts the trip would be pushed back several months instead. I hate going into the casino not feeling on top of my game.

[Bigdaddy]

Interesting question/situation. I'm a bit surprised that if you already are proficient in Hi-Lo why you would consider switching counts for your upcoming double-deck (DD) trip. If you're just talking about an occasional DD trip, then the answer is clearly NO. Don't waste your time and effort changing counts because the extra EV won't be worth it.

However, if you plan on playing a lot of DD games in the longer term, then the answer is maybe yes, it may be worth it to switch counts. And since you've indicated that you're inclined to go with a two-level count (e.g., Zen), then I would have to recommend that you go with Hi-Opt II w/ ace side count. HO2 (and AO2) stand 20% or so above all other counts in DD games. You can find a comparison of counts (SCOREs) in BJA3. You will see that for shoe games, no one count really blows away any other count. But for DD games, there are two counts that are outstanding: HO2 and AO2.

Let the games begin ....

[greg16394]

I am currently on my best short positive streak, having lost 1 session ($700), won 4 others ($1300 to $2300).

What is your average session length ?

[Drewster]

Interesting question/situation. I'm a bit surprised that if you already are proficient in Hi-Lo why you would consider switching counts for your upcoming double-deck (DD) trip. If you're just talking about an occasional DD trip, then the answer is clearly NO. Don't waste your time and effort changing counts because the extra EV won't be worth it.

However, if you plan on playing a lot of DD games in the longer term, then the answer is maybe yes, it may be worth it to switch counts. And since you've indicated that you're inclined to go with a two-level count (e.g., Zen), then I would have to recommend that you go with Hi-Opt II w/ ace side count. HO2 (and AO2) stand 20% or so above all other counts in DD games. You can find a comparison of counts (SCOREs) in BJA3. You will see that for shoe games, no one count really blows away any other count. But for DD games, there are two counts that are outstanding: HO2 and AO2.

Let the games begin ....

Thanks for the info Bigdaddy, if you wouldn't mind entertaining some questions I understand that in ace neutral counts you use the non ace reckoned count for determining your bet size and then you make play deviations based on how many extra Or deficient aces there are right? But how do you that? Sorry if that's a silly question. Also I know there's BJFB for AOII, but do you know A good literary source for HOII? But yes I mainly play shoe games at the moment because of the bankroll limit keeping me away from my local DD but in the future I'd like to focus on those and SD if possible.

[Three]

Thanks for the info Bigdaddy, if you wouldn't mind entertaining some questions I understand that in ace neutral counts you use the non ace reckoned count for determining your bet size and then you make play deviations based on how many extra Or deficient aces there are right?

You have this backwards.

But how do you that?

For betting decisions you temporarily add the ace adjustment to the main count RC to get a betting TC. The ace adjustment requires a quarter deck estimate for the best accuracy. You expect to have counted 1 ace for each quarter deck seen. If there are fewer counted the difference is the ace surplus. You add +2 times the ace surplus to the main count RC to get a betting TC. If the ace count equals the number of quarter decks seen (the expected number of aces) no RC adjustment is made. If there are more aces seen than the number of quarter decks seen then there is an ace deficit. You subtract 2 times the diffence between the counted aces and the number of quarter decks seen (the number of aces expected to have been seen). Generally the ace adjustment for an ace side counted ace neutral count is the same as the T tag for the main count.

[stopgambling]

But for DD games, there are two counts that are outstanding: HO2 and AO2.

if i mainly play DD ,yes.

[Bigdaddy]

Thanks for the info Bigdaddy, if you wouldn't mind entertaining some questions I understand that in ace neutral counts you use the non ace reckoned count for determining your bet size and then you make play deviations based on how many extra Or deficient aces there are right? But how do you that? Sorry if that's a silly question. Also I know there's BJFB for AOII, but do you know A good literary source for HOII? But yes I mainly play shoe games at the moment because of the bankroll limit keeping me away from my local DD but in the future I'd like to focus on those and SD if possible.

Three gave a good answer in his post #8 (Thanks T). As for a good book on HO2, I'm not sure where the basic doctrine is found. The system was derived by Lance Humble. What I do know is that if you have CVBJ practice software, you can find all the count tags and indexes for HO2 therein. All you need to do from there is make the ace adjustment for betting decisions (as Tthree noted in his post) and practice, practice, practice.

One more thing - the optimal betting ramps can be determined in CVCX or CVData.

[greg16394]

For betting decisions you temporarily add the ace adjustment to the main count RC to get a betting TC. The ace adjustment requires a quarter deck estimate for the best accuracy. You expect to have counted 1 ace for each quarter deck seen. If there are fewer counted the difference is the ace surplus. You add +2 times the ace surplus to the main count RC to get a betting TC. If the ace count equals the number of quarter decks seen (the expected number of aces) no RC adjustment is made. If there are more aces seen than the number of quarter decks seen then there is an ace deficit. You subtract 2 times the diffence between the counted aces and the number of quarter decks seen (the number of aces expected to have been seen). Generally the ace adjustment for an ace side counted ace neutral count is the same as the T tag for the main count.

When you play DD, is 'Quarter Deck' estimation must, instead of half deck or full deck ?

[mofungoo]

Only if side counting aces. I/2 deck estimation is generally OK with 2D up to 75% penetration.

[seriousplayer]

Only if side counting aces. I/2 deck estimation is generally OK with 2D up to 75% penetration.

I don't use Hi-lo but when I play single deck and double deck games I usually do deck estimation to quarter decks.

[Gramazeka]

But for DD games, there are two counts that are outstanding: HO2 and AO2.

Let the games begin ....

I would choose for double deck unbalanced system- UBZ 2 or BRH.

http://www.blackjackreview.com/wp/archives/brh-systems/