If you have a 5K chip take it to a crap table and they will automatically break it down for you.
Play for awhile betting the "donts" and laying full odds. Do not color out. Caveat:
at the $5,000 (cash) level you can trigger a STR (suspicious transaction report), so cash out
your chips on three occasions; as most casinos in L.V. demand I.D. at $2,000
I believe this is a SAR (suspicious activity report) and has a threshold of $5K (can be triggered for less in judgement of casino). In single instances these are generally not meaningful but don't get a lot of them over a short period of time or you may get to talk to Treasury about structuring.Originally Posted by ZenMaster_Flash
Luck is nothing more than probability taken personally!
Casinos do not want to file CTR's but massive fines levied by the Feds has persuaded them to abide.
However STR's are only VERY rarely filed, because the report's foundation is purely subjective. Even
if they knew an individual was 'laundering' ill-gotten gain, they want him to keep gambling of course.
I don't know about your jurisdiction but they do this for multiple cash outs in a day that add to a CTR. Almost every casino has a threshold. Many are around $2-3K. Some don't seem to have any threshold. In my opinion the looser the threshold the closer they are looking at everything to begin with. With a low threshold they are relying on a E-trail to file a CTR. With a loose threshold they have a tracking system that knows you have been to the cage that day, likely facial recognition that has created a file for your face. The question is are you more comfortable with the computer tracking you or with humans getting involved to be data entry people. The regs don't come from gaming but come from homeland security. Casino policy is set to make sure banking regs are followed despite intentional or unintentional efforts by players to make following them difficult. If the casino is onto you they likely have your name already if they really want it. Suspicions are based on your activities. Do you play rated, your play, how you interact with the casino staff, do you color up, and how you act between coloring up and cashing out. We all know what they expect AP's to do. The more you fit the profile of what they expect from an AP the shorter your longevity will be and the more problems you will have dealing with the casino. I know some use systems that are easily pegged and feel they must do all the things they are expecting AP's to do. I question that idea. I know how I do it and I rarely see any heat but then I don't fit their profile of an AP.
After once again speaking with Gaming, I was referred to Regulation 12 (can be easily found on their website) section 12.060 Item 4, which I have copied here for reference.
The chip was acquired while a player (not me) was playing not rated and may therefore be denied by the casino. It will require the player to go to the casino to get the chip cashed and/or possible legal assistance.
12.060 Use of chips and tokens.
1. Chips and tokens are solely representatives of value which evidence a debt owed to their custodian by the licensee that issued them and are not the property of anyone other than that licensee.
2. A licensee that uses chips or tokens at its gaming establishment shall:
(a) Comply with all applicable statutes, regulations, and policies of Nevada and of the United States pertaining to chips or tokens;
Regulation 12, Chips and Tokens Page 4
(Rev. 08/14)
(b) Issue chips and tokens only to patrons of its gaming establishment and only at their request;
(c) Promptly redeem its own chips and tokens from its patrons by cash or check drawn on an account of the licensee;
(d) Post conspicuous signs at its establishment notifying patrons that federal law prohibits the use of the licensee’s tokens, that state law prohibits the use of the licensee’s chips, outside the establishment for any monetary purpose whatever, and that the chips and tokens issued by the licensee are the property of the licensee, only; and
(e) Take reasonable steps, including examining chips and tokens and segregating those issued by other licensees to prevent the issuance to its patrons of chips and tokens issued by another licensee.
3. A licensee shall not accept chips or tokens as payment for any goods or services offered at the licensee’s gaming establishment with the exception of the specific use for which the chips or tokens were issued, and shall not give chips or tokens as change in any other transaction.
4. A licensee shall not redeem its chips or tokens if presented by a person who the licensee knows or reasonably should know is not a patron of its gaming establishment, except that a licensee shall promptly redeem its chips and tokens if presented by:
(a) Another licensee who represents that it redeemed the chips and tokens from its patrons or received them unknowingly, inadvertently, or unavoidably;
(b) An employee of the licensee who presents the chips and tokens in the normal course of employment; or
(c) A person engaged in the business of collecting from licensees chips and tokens issued by other licensees and presenting them to the issuing licensees for redemption.
5. A licensee may redeem its chips and tokens if presented by an agent of the state gaming control board in the performance of his official duties or on behalf of another governmental agency.
6. A licensee shall not knowingly issue, use, permit the use of, or redeem chips or tokens issued by another licensee, except as follows:
(a) A licensee may redeem tokens issued by another licensee if:
(1) The tokens are presented by a patron for redemption to a cashier of the licensee’s gaming establishment or, in the case of a location having slot machines operated by a licensed operator of a slot machine route, if a patron presents them to the operator’s employee at the location; or
(2) The tokens are presented by a patron at a table game; and
(3) The licensee redeems the tokens with tokens of its own, separates and properly accounts for the redeemed tokens during the count performed pursuant to the licensee’s system of internal control required by Regulation 6, and places the redeemed tokens in the table’s drop box, if redeemed at a table game; and
(b) A licensee may redeem chips issued by another licensee if:
(1) The chips are presented by a patron for redemption at the cashier’s cage of the licensee’s gaming establishment;
(2) The chips are presented by a patron at a table game, and the licensee redeems the chips with chips of its own, places the redeemed chips in the table’s drop box, and separates and properly accounts for the redeemed chips during the count performed pursuant to the licensee’s system of internal control submitted pursuant to Regulation 6.050 or 6.060; or
(3) The chips are presented by a patron as payment on a race, pari-mutuel, or sports wager to a book located on the premises of the licensee which issued the chips; and
(c) An operator of a slot machine route or its employee may redeem tokens that are issued by the operator for use at another location.
7. Chips whose use is restricted to uses other than at table games or other than at specified table games may be redeemed by the issuing licensee at table games or non-specified table games if the chips are presented by a patron, and the licensee redeems the chips with chips issued for use at the game, places the redeemed chips in the table’s drop box, and separates and properly accounts for the redeemed chips during the count performed pursuant to the licensee’s system of internal control required by Regulation 6.
Regulation 12, Chips and Tokens Page 5
(Rev. 08/14)
8. Tokens may be used only at gaming establishments operated by persons holding nonrestricted gaming licenses, including restricted locations at which gaming devices are operated by licensed operators of slot machine routes.
(Adopted: 6/87. Amended: 8/88; 12/91; 2/94; 11/10; 08/14.)
Luck is nothing more than probability taken personally!
A far cry from "... id and verification of play for 5K chips is a gaming regulation! "
Opinions and Commentary on the Gaming Industry: The Bear Growls
LV, I agree but that's his story and he is sticking too it!! I believe legal intervention is the only push back.
FYI, I told the agent that I was a patron but I did not get that chip and he said it had to be tied to the play where it originated and if it can not be then the casino may not honor it! He had the nerve to tell me that the regulation was to protect the patron! I told him the regulation was an invasive overreach that penalizes the innocent more so than protect any patron.
It was a very cordial, but direct, conversation ending with him suggesting I go to a Board meeting and speak up at the public comments time.
Luck is nothing more than probability taken personally!
It was a very cordial, but direct, conversation ending with him suggesting I go to a Board meeting and speak up at the public comments time.
Unfortunately, this is the attitude of Gaming enforcement. They make up their own nonsense additions to regulations as they see fit, almost always against the interests of patrons. It is really pathetic in Nevada, as Stealth well knows. I think the present Enforcement Division personnel are the worst in the 17 years or so that I have been playing.
For only 5k it will not be worth the hassle and expense of a formal Gaming complaint (which will of course lose) and subsequent lawsuit, though this would seem to be a good test case to get a judicial determination that is more favorable to patron rights than what the "Casino Protection Enforcement Agents" usually come up with.
Last edited by LVBear584; 05-24-2016 at 05:31 PM.
Opinions and Commentary on the Gaming Industry: The Bear Growls
Good grief. All those words for a simple transaction. In olden days, you could take your chips across the street and use them. The casino would rather take the wager than send you back to the original casino.
"I don't think outside the box; I think of what I can do with the box." - Henri Matisse
Doesn't matter the amount. SAR reports are for suspicious activity and can be generated for any amount.
Why not just say "I played here a couple weeks ago. Not having a players card shouldn't mean you won't pay me my money!"
Don't think you have a winning game; know you have a winning game.
agreed...times have changed....but I think everyone is aware that large denom chip's origins are accounted for....i often 'bolt' to the cage right after coloring up and have been asked where, specifically, i played...as for coloring up large chips that aren't mine???....wish i had friends like that...lol
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