HiLo vs Zen - I'm confused

[Norm]

Leave or don't leave. But, for Godsake stop going on and on and on and on and on about it. Everyone is sick of this soap opera.

[BoSox]

I have just realized something rather interesting.

Posters, naturally enough, are taken at their word.

A wise man once said ... "Trust but verify."

KJ claims to make a 6 figure yearly income via modest stakes with Hi-Lo.

I simply do NOT believe that. Each of us will believe what serves our

private purposes. Mathematicians and scholars do NOT.

They view dubious claims with a healthy measure of skepticism.

Flash, is there any relevance, to your above speculations?

On this forum there are users of Level One counts that use KJ's hyperbole

to bolster their dogged self-serving belief that they have no need to step up

to a better count. Thus protecting themselves from facing an examination of

their choices and practices and results RE: their (long-term) BJ history, and the

possibilities of changing what they have been doing for months, years, decades !

Successful players could care less that you do not like there system!

[Norm]

Successful players could care less that you do not like there system!

People are allowed to give opinions on this site. People are NOT allowed to demand that other people respect, believe, or agree with everything they post. This is a forum -- not a cult.

[BoSox]

People are allowed to give opinions on this site.

Norm did you not just respond to an opinion?

[Freightman]

Wow! Look at all the people not helpful votes! Who is the overworked primadonna?

[Stealth]

KJ claims to make a 6 figure yearly income via modest stakes with Hi-Lo.

I simply do NOT believe that.

First ZMF, I value your participation in this forum and find your responses to be , sometimes harsh, but always factual. I share some of your "direct" trait so can understand.

I do not know KJ (other than here) and have no axe to grind with either of you.

I do, however, find it hard not to give a fellow AP the benefit of the doubt regarding his statements. More directly, unless you have some basis for your conjecture then I suggest you have erred, at least in the modicum of discourse that we should all find acceptable.

Now, I am a HiLo player (semi-retired, not a full time AP) but the "between the lines" intent of your statement seemed to be no one could be effective using that count. Certainly, I am not one to argue such matters as to where the line of complexity crosses the line of effectiveness in selecting a count. If we were all capable, perhaps we might just remember every card played and retain every card remaining and always have perfect information. It is my experience that the bell shaped curve for that distribution of intelligence is way skewed to the negative.

Now with all that said, here is some data (not conjecture or general statements) about the performance of a HiLo counter. Not perfect , but real.

First, a cumulative graph of all the stuff you would want to know.
Stealth Play.JPG

Then some data to show you where he is toward the long term.
Long Term.JPG

Then some data to show how he did relative to Z-Scores for his sessions and how he track with a cumulative Z-Score which speaks to his long term ability.
Zscores.JPG


In summary, there are good reasons for people to select different systems and not all of those reasons are absolute to the technical best. Give room for them to work. Never underestimate the desire to work and win.

So, in my journey, I am pleased to know (albeit by forum) both you and KJ (and Three and others) and hope we can respect that there are multiple ways to "skin a cat", as my Grandaddy always said!

And yes, I am that Hi-Lo player.

[Norm]

Norm did you not just respond to an opinion?

I responded to an uncalled for insult. It is perfectly acceptable to say that you do not believe something. It is entirely different to say that no one cares what a particular person say. You are allowed to express your opinion. You are not allowed to claim that every successful player shares your insulting opinion.

People are allowed to state their own opinions. You are NOT allowed to speak for other people, or claim, without evidence, that they all agree with you.

Seriously folks, it's not that complicated.

[ZenMaster_Flash]

The stridence and zeal of some players who promulgate their opinion as tautology
is reminiscent of cultists, religious extremists, and bloviating political windbags.

"Just saying." (as some say nowadays)

[Freightman]

The stridence and zeal of some players who promulgate their opinion as tautology
is reminiscent of cultists, religious extremists, and bloviating political windbags.

"Just saying." (as some say nowadays)

In other words, opinions are like assholes - everybody has one (should put that one in quotes). Some stink more than others. Yeah A that sounds about right.

[Freightman]

Wow! Look at all the people not helpful votes! Who is the overworked primadonna?

Wow! Look at all the people with helpful votes. Who us the overworked primadonna.

[Norm]

Calm done guys. Read: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipe..._horse_carcass

[Stealth]

Like it!!

[alexost]

First ZMF, I value your participation in this forum and find your responses to be , sometimes harsh, but always factual. I share some of your "direct" trait so can understand.

I do not know KJ (other than here) and have no axe to grind with either of you.

I do, however, find it hard not to give a fellow AP the benefit of the doubt regarding his statements. More directly, unless you have some basis for your conjecture then I suggest you have erred, at least in the modicum of discourse that we should all find acceptable.

Now, I am a HiLo player (semi-retired, not a full time AP) but the "between the lines" intent of your statement seemed to be no one could be effective using that count. Certainly, I am not one to argue such matters as to where the line of complexity crosses the line of effectiveness in selecting a count. If we were all capable, perhaps we might just remember every card played and retain every card remaining and always have perfect information. It is my experience that the bell shaped curve for that distribution of intelligence is way skewed to the negative.

Now with all that said, here is some data (not conjecture or general statements) about the performance of a HiLo counter. Not perfect , but real.

First, a cumulative graph of all the stuff you would want to know.
Stealth Play.JPG

Then some data to show you where he is toward the long term.
Long Term.JPG

Then some data to show how he did relative to Z-Scores for his sessions and how he track with a cumulative Z-Score which speaks to his long term ability.
Zscores.JPG


In summary, there are good reasons for people to select different systems and not all of those reasons are absolute to the technical best. Give room for them to work. Never underestimate the desire to work and win.

So, in my journey, I am pleased to know (albeit by forum) both you and KJ (and Three and others) and hope we can respect that there are multiple ways to "skin a cat", as my Grandaddy always said!

And yes, I am that Hi-Lo player.

Awesome