My first BO, what did I do wrong?

[Freightman]

U

So I just experience my first backoff as a card counter today. I am sad to say that it was at my favorite casino in the area, but it wasn't a bad experience. On the contrary, the two people that backed me off were very pleasant and complimented me on my play and just told me that I am too good for them. I am now not allowed to play any table games at this place (is it safe to say where? I don't think anyone will be surprised if they hear the name, it is in SoCal).

Anyways, although I am excited that I got BO'd (I must be doing something right, I hope...), I want to know what caused me to get the tap. I am not afraid to admit that I do not have 100% perfect play yet as I've only been seriously counting cards and applying bet spreads and such for about 2 months now, and have only been using Hi-Opt II for about 2 weeks. I was spreading 1-6 at the $25 DD table, which I was under the impression is generally a safe spread at most places, especially while using HOII. The biggest reason that I can think of is that I don't generally ramp up my bets slowly, if the count jumps suddenly I will jump my bet with it, usually going just 1 unit below the recommended bet vs the TC. For example, if the TC jumps from 0 to 3, my bet spread would indicate I bet $100, but going from a $25 bet I will just press it to $75. Generally I try not to press more than $50 a hand, unless the TC jumps high enough to indicate a 4 unit+ bet AND I only have a handful of green chips left on the table, making it seem like an "all-in" type of play. As far as my profile goes I am in my mid 20s but look like I'm 15, I try to tip about $5 an hour, sometimes more at the end when coloring up a big win, and I try to make small talk with the dealers/pit managers to not seem like I'm super focused on the cards. I also hesitate when I have hands that are potential doubles/splits and show the cards to the dealer to seem like I'm not super sure of what I'm doing. I also like to complain a lot when I get pocket Aces when the count is high (UGH I have to split Aces vs a 10 when I have $150 on the table, this SUCKS! ) I was playing rated, as I always do there, but I hadn't been at this place in about 4 months and it was the first time actually counting cards there.

I would love some input on my play and ways I can work on my cover so I can avoid being BO'd at other casinos in my area, I'm already driving 2+ hours as is and would love to be able to continue to visit local stores. Please let me know if I put in too much information or too little so I can amend the post. Also feel free to PM me if you'd like to keep some information more private.

On a side note: I'm thinking of going to Vegas soon, can I get some recommendations of where to play either via PM or post here?

Thank you!!

Please note that my comments are from someone who is almost exclusively a shoe player, and others more knowledgable on DD may well have a differing opinion.

The fact that your young, with an apparent baby face to boot, was part of the issue spreading 1-6. I don't know what the table conditions were, so 1-6 may or may not have had a high SCORE. That being said, your maximum EV would essentially be to bet what the count calls for. This is really a problem at dd, and for that matter, so was the double jump to 75.

You got the heave first time counting cards - what did you do Wrong? Don't know - wasn't watching - maybe something, maybe nothing.

So, if longevity is your goal, patience is called for. One problem that I see is that many counters, possibly yourself as well, are fairly robotic on their ramps, and are therefore, quite predictable. At relatively low cost, have buckets of bets for various true counts. Think of it as an intersection of rings, like Olympic Rings. Makes you look like a progression bettor. Depending on bankroll strength, there is some room for opposition type bets which will aid your cause.

General wisdom dictates 1-8 spread on dd to make money. I've seen conditions where that is not even close to being enough, and others where it is hugely more than sufficient. So, I guess the question is, what were the conditions, including deck pen?

[Marlene]

if this game has ls then the score was sufficient unless full table

[dommyy13]

if this game has ls then the score was sufficient unless full table

Yes, LS is an option, I was playing heads up about half the time, up to 2 other people max at the table the other half.

[dommyy13]

U

Please note that my comments are from someone who is almost exclusively a shoe player, and others more knowledgable on DD may well have a differing opinion.

The fact that your young, with an apparent baby face to boot, was part of the issue spreading 1-6. I don't know what the table conditions were, so 1-6 may or may not have had a high SCORE. That being said, your maximum EV would essentially be to bet what the count calls for. This is really a problem at dd, and for that matter, so was the double jump to 75.

You got the heave first time counting cards - what did you do Wrong? Don't know - wasn't watching - maybe something, maybe nothing.

So, if longevity is your goal, patience is called for. One problem that I see is that many counters, possibly yourself as well, are fairly robotic on their ramps, and are therefore, quite predictable. At relatively low cost, have buckets of bets for various true counts. Think of it as an intersection of rings, like Olympic Rings. Makes you look like a progression bettor. Depending on bankroll strength, there is some room for opposition type bets which will aid your cause.

General wisdom dictates 1-8 spread on dd to make money. I've seen conditions where that is not even close to being enough, and others where it is hugely more than sufficient. So, I guess the question is, what were the conditions, including deck pen?

H17, DA2, DAS, RSA, LS, 60% pen as determined by the little slot in their used card caddy (don't know what those are called).

There is another place where I play with H17, DA2, DAS, and 75% pen and I've yet to be backed off there after playing twice a week for the past 4 weeks (and winning!) so I'm curious as to why I was backed off so quickly this time.

maybe I'm giving out too much information, please let me know if i am so I can edit it out.