Subject for the next Moo Camp?

**ZeeBabar** · 04-04-2015, 06:27 PM

Maybe the camp can be broken into 2 or 3 segments to address the needs of the relative newbies and part-timers, the intermediate and the pros. Go from card counting, money management and basics, to more advanced stuff including score, NO and such and finally to other AP opportunities. One can register for any of the segments or all.

**terry0222** · 04-05-2015, 04:19 PM

ZeeBabar offers an interesting "resolution."

I note that some of the organizations that offer "poker boot camps" have different "tracks." For instance, they may offer poker classes geared to tournament play on any given weekend, but another weekend is oriented to cash play. These are further broken down into "beginner" and "advanced" concepts.

Obviously, conducting classes is not full-time for Moo.....but the idea of different curricula is a concept that might be explored. The "market place" will ultimately dictate the extent to which individuals prefer a class made up of "content A" vs a class made up of "content B." I understand a vote and discussion. But what is the content that will actually put students in the chairs?

**ZenKinG** · 04-05-2015, 08:42 PM

Sequencing/Tracking. Specific shuffles that can be tracked and what to look for. Reading through the cookbook, not everyone knows every single shuffle by the eye and it would be refreshing to know visually what exactly a vulnerable sequencing shuffle or trackable shuffle looks like. I like many others would probably only attend if the topics were out of the realm of card counting and focused more on least discussed AP opportunities. Look forward to attend if in the NYC/NJ/PA area.

**terry0222** · 04-08-2015, 05:36 PM

I am just curious.... how many individuals have the opportunity to shuffle track?

I have 6 casinos in my immediate vicinity, and another 4-5 within a 2-hour drive. All have automatic shufflers. (Not CSM....but automatic shuffling machines.)

I see a lot of requests for help with shuffle tracking. Is this really a viable opportunity in a lot of places?

Observation: Shuffle machines certainly provide more hands per hour. So besides a need to learn shuffle tracking, the benefits must offset the downside of fewer hands per hour.

**Aslan** · 04-08-2015, 05:46 PM

Originally Posted by moo321

Terry, there's actually a bunch of 99% games near you. I think there are a few 99.9% games within driving distance. Video poker in your area has actually dramatically improved since I started playing.

...and when you consider the comps, they become a +EV endeavor in many places.

**Three** · 04-08-2015, 05:54 PM

I rarely see a hand shuffled game. The last place I could play a hand shuffle told me I couldn't play BJ and some other games any more. They just happened to be all the games that were hand shuffled. Since then I don't recall seeing a hand shuffle. Even the odd high roller table that always had a hand shuffle is ASM now. I still know a couple of ASM's that break so much you will get a lot of hand shuffles. I am no ST expert but I just don't trust the machines. I have exploited shuffles by certain dealers though. I always tracked big clumps of aces and huge runs of face cards. I guess my life got easier with all the ASMs. I do miss the hand shuffle games though.

**ZenKinG** · 04-08-2015, 06:42 PM

Originally Posted by Tthree

I rarely see a hand shuffled game. The last place I could play a hand shuffle told me I couldn't play BJ and some other games any more. They just happened to be all the games that were hand shuffled. Since then I don't recall seeing a hand shuffle. Even the odd high roller table that always had a hand shuffle is ASM now. I still know a couple of ASM's that break so much you will get a lot of hand shuffles. I am no ST expert but I just don't trust the machines. I have exploited shuffles by certain dealers though. I always tracked big clumps of aces and huge runs of face cards. I guess my life got easier with all the ASMs. I do miss the hand shuffle games though.

You're not the only one who doesn't trust the machines. I mean even if they tried to clump face cards to be at the end of the shoe, they do give the player the choice to cut the deck at the beginning of play. I guess if one is paranoid always cut off the bottom 1.5 decks and see if you get a lot of tens to start off the shoe.

**Three** · 04-08-2015, 07:25 PM

Originally Posted by ZenKinG

I mean even if they tried to clump face cards to be at the end of the shoe, they do give the player the choice to cut the deck at the beginning of play.

I have never seen a game that a player didn't cut the cards after the shuffle. I am pretty sure it is a ubiquitous regulation. The dealer always has to call the suit f the players want himto cut the cards and the suit makes sure th entire table is okay with it.

**mcallister3200** · 04-08-2015, 07:55 PM

Most house procedures are going to require the deck to be cut in the middle 2/3, whether or not the dealer enforces it may be another story.

**moo321** · 04-09-2015, 08:27 AM

Originally Posted by terry0222

I am just curious.... how many individuals have the opportunity to shuffle track?

I have 6 casinos in my immediate vicinity, and another 4-5 within a 2-hour drive. All have automatic shufflers. (Not CSM....but automatic shuffling machines.)

I see a lot of requests for help with shuffle tracking. Is this really a viable opportunity in a lot of places?

Observation: Shuffle machines certainly provide more hands per hour. So besides a need to learn shuffle tracking, the benefits must offset the downside of fewer hands per hour.

I know of at least 4-5 shuffles that are pretty easily trackable, and a few more that are trackable with ninja-skills.

**ZenKinG** · 04-09-2015, 12:18 PM

Originally Posted by Tthree

I have never seen a game that a player didn't cut the cards after the shuffle. I am pretty sure it is a ubiquitous regulation. The dealer always has to call the suit f the players want himto cut the cards and the suit makes sure th entire table is okay with it.

Thats what i said. Dealers let the players cut the deck before the game starts. So that would eliminate any skepticism you might have of card clumping from the machines to favor the house.

**Three** · 04-09-2015, 03:46 PM

Originally Posted by ZenKinG

Thats what i said. Dealers let the players cut the deck before the game starts. So that would eliminate any skepticism you might have of card clumping from the machines to favor the house.

I guess you did. I thought I read something else. My apologies.

**Aslan** · 04-09-2015, 03:50 PM

Originally Posted by ZenKinG

You're not the only one who doesn't trust the machines. I mean even if they tried to clump face cards to be at the end of the shoe, they do give the player the choice to cut the deck at the beginning of play. I guess if one is paranoid always cut off the bottom 1.5 decks and see if you get a lot of tens to start off the shoe.

But what if instead of clumping the high cards at one end, the ASM simply removed most the clumps so that the count would never go anyplace much, either up or down? Then it would not matter where you cut the cards. Or what if it actually created a cooler that didn't much matter where you cut the cards, the house would still be favored, as we already know is possible for one or two players, where nearly every hand is won by the house. Personally, I am not much paranoid of ASMs programmed to stack the shoe because I only play at mainstream casinos which I do not believe would ever risk their licenses, not to mention jail time, to pull such a trick. A small casino-- who knows what they might do? The history of casinos in this country is not entirely a pretty one.