Table Superstition

**SiMi** · 02-22-2015, 04:26 PM

Hi, marriedputter!

I enjoyed reading your explanation about talking to Dealers. I have come to believe that, since Casinos are now located all over the place, there are a lot of AP BJ players in the world who do not have scores of Casinos to 'hit and run' within easy reach. These players may have only 1-3 Casinos in their area and they quickly realize their situation requires a different style of play or they will be barred from any action in their area. (I think some authors might refer to such people as "recreational players" but I do not believe that term is apt in many of these cases.)

I suspect that many of these players are "part-time professional players (PTPP)" and they cannot, as a practical matter, push every advantage to the max, treat the Casino staff as robots and fail to blend in with the ploppies if they hope to survive. "Longevity" to such players is measured in YEARS rather than hours or minutes. Much of the advice one reads about AP Blackjack seems to ignore these players.

Many of the posts here seem to come at every topic from only one point of view, usually that of a full-time player who is not interested in developing a style of play that permits YEARS of hassle-free, advantage play at a few places. It's a tricky art and seems to be under-recognized. I've often thought it would help if the posters here would clarify that they are in this PTPP category.

It seems that when a 'hit and run' player meets a PTPP, it's like two ships passing in the night...

Chat 'em up if it helps!
SiMi

**Aslan** · 02-22-2015, 05:35 PM

Originally Posted by moses

I can't really go into specifics on the general forum. But I honestly don't know what they do in shoes or tables with multiple players. But for me, it's like really? You can just tell when somebody doesn't belong at the spot they are in, nervousness, lack of bankroll, etc. and it really throws them into a WFT tailspin when I sit there and don't bet. It's not a shill but rather somone responding to a directive. The device I see looks like a mouse for a computer and the dealer would hit it before dealing. Some would do it before each round, while other it was before each hand. It only surfaced at the high stakes tables on weekends.

Curious. I wonder what it is? I can only guess. A method of counting hands per hour? A method of alerting surveillance that the shoe was about to begin? A way of assuring surveillance that no chips are palmed? A way of telling surveillance that the fellow who doesn't seem to belong is still there? Maybe surveillance is more mystified by that WTF fellow you described than you are!

**Three** · 02-22-2015, 05:58 PM

Originally Posted by marriedputter

Last night, I saw quite a few strange plays that I had never seen before. I saw somebody stay on A5 vs a 10. I also saw somebody double down on 6 against a 10. I see people double down on a 12 against a bust card from time to time but I saw somebody double down on 13 and even 14 against a 10.

I just tell them, you can do whatever you want but you don't want to do that.

Then you get the people afraid to bust their hand. If I feel helpful I will ask if they think it helps to lose a hand later rather than earlier and point out when the dealer flips a pat hand the only way he had a chance to win was to hit. Some figure it out after a while.

**Three** · 02-22-2015, 06:06 PM

Originally Posted by moses

The device I see looks like a mouse for a computer and the dealer would hit it before dealing. Some would do it before each round, while other it was before each hand. It only surfaced at the high stakes tables on weekends.

I am guessing they have RFID chips in the cheques. He hits the mouse to record each spots bet.

**Frank Galvin** · 02-22-2015, 06:22 PM

So the mouse click is akin to the Enter key on a keyboard, and tells the RFID software, start tracking this round?

**Aslan** · 02-22-2015, 06:26 PM

This should probably get its own thread.

**Three** · 02-22-2015, 06:33 PM

Originally Posted by rmwlaw

So the mouse click is akin to the Enter key on a keyboard, and tells the RFID software, start tracking this round?

Connect the dots. Only high denomination tables (only high denomination chips have the RFID chip in them) when it is too busy to track all the bets at the tables closely using manpower. It is just a guess but I think it has a good chance of being right.

**Three** · 02-22-2015, 07:51 PM

Originally Posted by moses

I agree. I tried to find the old thread on this topic. From memory, I ask the pit boss what it was and got a vague answer that it was something they were experimenting with and had to to with tracking comps...which I didn't buy.

That would be the first use for what I speculated it was. There could be other uses that aren't quite as helpful to understate it.

**Dieter** · 02-22-2015, 08:20 PM

Originally Posted by rmwlaw

So the mouse click is akin to the Enter key on a keyboard, and tells the RFID software, start tracking this round?

That has been my experience.

And yes, it's used to track comps, by getting a good read on both average bet and hands per hour.

Whether or not it's used for anything else is up to the house.

**Thirdbaseman** · 02-23-2015, 06:06 AM

Originally Posted by Tthree

I just tell them, you can do whatever you want but you don't want to do that.

Then you get the people afraid to bust their hand. If I feel helpful I will ask if they think it helps to lose a hand later rather than earlier and point out when the dealer flips a pat hand the only way he had a chance to win was to hit. Some figure it out after a while.

I don't see much good coming out of telling ploppies how to play their hand, unless they ask and you tell them to stand in a positive count and not use up cards, or to hit in a negative count.
I'm like Sharky, I try to be the invisible man.

**Three** · 02-23-2015, 06:23 AM

Originally Posted by Thirdbaseman

I don't see much good coming out of telling ploppies how to play their hand, unless they ask and you tell them to stand in a positive count and not use up cards, or to hit in a negative count.
I'm like Sharky, I try to be the invisible man.

It is more about controlling a table. It is an important AP skill tat isn't talked about much. I don't care what people do and I am not going to give them bad advice to increase my edge 0.00001%. You need to learn how to get others at the table to leave and not cause your table to be the center of attention. The only way to do that is learn what buttons to push. I can't help but root against others at times but I am not going to sabotage them.

**Thirdbaseman** · 02-23-2015, 06:38 AM

Originally Posted by Tthree

It is more about controlling a table. It is an important AP skill tat isn't talked about much. I don't care what people do and I am not going to give them bad advice to increase my edge 0.00001%. You need to learn how to get others at the table to leave and not cause your table to be the center of attention. The only way to do that is learn what buttons to push. I can't help but root against others at times but I am not going to sabotage them.

I will not give bad advice, but if ploppy is unsure and asks for help, then I may give him some encouragement especially if going "by the book" will help me.

**Three** · 02-23-2015, 06:44 AM

Originally Posted by Thirdbaseman

I will not give bad advice, but if ploppy is unsure and asks for help, then I may give him some encouragement especially if going "by the book" will help me.

Plops that take two minutes for each decision slow the game to a crawl. Just explain the matchup is a loser no matter how they play it and tell them what BS says will lose the least amount of money on average.