Thanks For having me

[John.Mossler]

Hello all. I'm new to the forum and just wanted to introduce myself. I'm an avid player and I know the rules and I stink at the game. I took the time to read through quite a bit of threads here and I'm astonished at the amount of knowledge available here.

Last October I had about 25 in my bank. I basically "gambled" it all away thinking that if you bet more you win more.( Keep in mind I was not counting) I basically "tried" to go off the rhythm of the table and the casino destroyed me. First place was in the south suburbs of chicago ( family vacation) and the second one was local here in Oklahoma. I went through all 25 within a months time frame.

I'm an open book as far as learning the best system for counters. I want to learn the proper methods for becoming disciplined and retain what i'm making(from time to time).

I am re building my bankroll and i'm willing to play low and slow if that's what it takes to actually build off of what I have.

I'm sure there are a lot of people here with criticism and that's ok. Its part of the learning process. Eventually in the end my goal is to become somebody good enough to play on a team and really hit the casino's where it hurts.


Currently now i'm working on memory exorcises and I am still playing but very slowly. I get about 10 to 15 hours in a week and its with a very small BR. I'm here to learn. All advice is welcome

[stopgambling]

Most likely you are not going to hit them where it hurts . if you have a multi - million team then maybe a little. You can do it for self benefit and a sense of beating them or get even from your lost. That is probably about it for now.

[SiMi]

Hi, JM

Welcome! If I were in your position and looking to join a team, I think I'd want to know about the Long Run and N0 so I know what I'm up against. If you're interested in how long it takes to have a good chance of being up, you can read a free eBook "Understanding N0" here:

http://www.blackjackstartup.com/N0I.htm

Once you understand N0, you can understand and explain to investors and potential team members why team play works. OK looks like a great place to do some AP Blackjack!

(Probably a good idea to pick a screen name.)

Best of luck in your new endeavor!
SiMi

[Marvin]

My advice:
Stop playing!!!
Why are you still playing if you're not playing a winning game?
It's wasted time that can be better put towards practicing at home.

1) Read the free online book provided by our host:
http://www.qfit.com/book

2) Buy Casino Verite Blackjack.

3)practice, practice, practice. The software will save you countless hours of practice time. The instruction booklet describes how to use the software to master each aspect of counting.

Before going back into a casino to play, you should:
1) know basic strategy perfectly, in your sleep, etc. It needs to be rote, like counting 1-10.
2) be proficient in whatever counting system you elect to use.
3) be able to play the game correctly and bet appropriately with distractions and without looking like you're focusing too much on the cards. Beating the game is easy; getting away with it is a bigger challenge.

Once you're playing a winning game you'll often find that casinos that once rolled out the red carpet will no longer welcome your action, unless they think you're still losing.

There is no 'best' count. It's an argument that's been rehashed enough times that there's no need to revisit it.
Hi-Lo is most popular, but I would suggest either REKO or KO since those counts eliminate the need for true count conversion or discard tray estimation.
If you find the unbalanced counts (KO or REKO) too easy/boring after you've put in a few hundred hours of table time, you can always switch to something more difficult.
The more difficult counts are more accurate if played perfectly, but they're more tiring to play perfectly.

You mention memory exercises (mnemonics?). You don't really need that for counting, but mnemonics come in very handy for some more advanced plays.

Seriously though. Stop playing and come back to ask more questions once you've read the online book, learned basic strategy, and started learning to count.

[Marvin]

My advice:
Stop playing!!!
Why are you still playing if you're not playing a winning game?
It's wasted time that can be better put towards practicing at home.

1) Read the free online book provided by our host:
http://www.qfit.com/book

2) Buy Casino Verite Blackjack.

3)practice, practice, practice. The software will save you countless hours of practice time. The instruction booklet describes how to use the software to master each aspect of counting.

Before going back into a casino to play, you should:
1) know basic strategy perfectly, in your sleep, etc. It needs to be rote, like counting 1-10.
2) be proficient in whatever counting system you elect to use.
3) be able to play the game correctly and bet appropriately with distractions and without looking like you're focusing too much on the cards. Beating the game is easy; getting away with it is a bigger challenge.

Once you're playing a winning game you'll often find that casinos that once rolled out the red carpet will no longer welcome your action, unless they think you're still losing.

There is no 'best' count. It's an argument that's been rehashed enough times that there's no need to revisit it.
Hi-Lo is most popular, but I would suggest either REKO or KO since those counts eliminate the need for true count conversion or discard tray estimation.
If you find the unbalanced counts (KO or REKO) too easy/boring after you've put in a few hundred hours of table time, you can always switch to something more difficult.
The more difficult counts are more accurate if played perfectly, but they're more tiring to play perfectly.

You mention memory exercises (mnemonics?). You don't really need that for counting, but mnemonics come in very handy for some more advanced plays.

Seriously though. Stop playing and come back to ask more questions once you've read the online book, learned basic strategy, and started learning to count.


Final thought: I hope that that's not your real name. If it is, you want to change your user name; you never know who's looking.

[John.Mossler]

Hey thanks and I will definitely take this advice seriously. I play now for pleasure or to get rid of the itch. I don't walk in there with much because i'm confident but at the same time cautious so its never much. The places here have low limits so I play maybe 2 bucks a hand on the days where they don't charge commission. I'm really observant to the guys around me who I see there all the time playing. Some of them are genuinely good at the game and I rarely see them walk out with a loss. I have the basic strategy burned into my head. I feel that playing by the book sometimes backfires and I (rarely) don't go by strategy.

I think the main reason I am here is because I noticed that when you actually try to find a beat to the table things change. I am definitely going to hit the books and I will Start studying both REKO and KO. I need to find out which one works best for me. Thanks again!!

[John.Mossler]

I have the patience for this now. Earlier I would have rushed right back in but now its time to learn this craft.

[Bodarc]

I feel that playing by the book sometimes backfires and I (rarely) don't go by strategy.

Unless you have an index number, you never do this.

[John.Mossler]

Noted. Its hard to get off feeling out the cards sometimes though. That's why I'm working really hard on my discipline to just break the habit and get into a true groove. I can run simulators all day and never make the wrong play especially when I weigh out the odds. Granted to percents are down to the bare bottom. Sucks but its exciting at the same time to fight the numbers.

[Bodarc]

If you had a choice: Option 1 +50.00 and Option 2 +50.0005, why would you ever (rarely) choose Option 1? Granted you may still lose the hand but your odds are better with Option 2. That is all basic strategy does. It gives you the best option no matter how small the difference.

[Three]

I a trying to find the best words to express this. This game is all about the long run. That is were your advantage comes from. If you make the best decision for the long run and you will average the EV computed for each hand played when the long run is reached. Every time you make a less than optimal decision you will have less money in the long run. It doesn't matter what happens that round it all averages out in the long run and each less than optimal decision will cost you whether you win that decision or not. The fewer decisions made allows for more variance from expectation which can be in either the winning or losing direction. As you have made more and more decisions your actual results should be expected to be closer and closer to expectation (less variance).

As you approach the long run your actual results approach expectation. Each less than optimal decision costs you the difference between the optimal decisions EV and the less than optimal decisions' EV that you made. They will all add up and cost you money. Being an AP is not trying to guess what the right decision is for that round and how the cards will fall, it is about making the optimal decision for all the info you have gathered about cards removed as you played through the shoe and making sure you don't bust out before you reach the long run so that the return for each matchup decision approaches the expected return shown by the optimal decisions EV.

So if you don't gather any information Basic Strategy is your optimal move and you should stick to it in all situations except knowing what the next card is. If you are counting use the index play for the matchup as your optimal decision using all information you have gathered. There are some trade offs an AP might do that gets more EV in the long run but that is best left for after you study more. If you are interested the one I through out there right now is Risk Averse indices. There are some others but it is best you don't think about any of that right now.