Scavenging even money

[FalseCount]

What is everyone's opinions and experience on scavenging at the tables.
For clarification, I mean making deals with plops when they leave advantageous situations open.

For example, count is very negative and the table has been getting crushed. Plop gets a blackjack and dealer shows an ace. Because he hasn't won in awhile he is happy to take even money. You interject and offer to pay him for the blackjack and you want to play it out.

Maybe in another scenario, a plop wants to hit his 10v2 rather than double. You ask for the double and he allows you to give him your money. In this scenario lets suppose that he catches a 2 and wants to hit again, now upset that he can't. What to do in this situation?

[RS]

He doesn't want to double a 10....but wants to hit a 12?

[FalseCount]

Perhaps. Perhaps he is on his last chips when this scenario presents itself and would like to refrain from going into his pocket.

[bjarg]

Given the right conditions, scavenging is one of the most profitable things you can do at a blackjack table.
The subject is very complex and very difficult to cover it extensively in one post.
Theres some stuff written out there that will help you if you are really interested.
I suggest you look them up.

On that specific scenario, if you know the ploppy and you know he wont hit 12 or + against a 2 you can take his double without worrying that might happen. If you dont know him you can ask him if he'll stand no matter what card he gets (which is usually the case with ploppies that play by the BOOK). if he says yes you can take the double without affecting his play. If he says no then its probably not worth the trouble and the attention you might draw to yourself if theres a problem.

[Nyne]

Interesting point about 10v2...even if you agreed to pay the ploppy's loss in the event he draws a 2, you still have a good edge. Paying 1 unit 0.65 * 1/13 of the time costs about 5% of a bet, but your edge on the double exceeds that by a good margin.

(1/13 of the time you will draw a 2 for a total of 12, about 65% of the time the dealer will make a hand with a 2 up.)

Better if you agree to buy the hand for 1 unit if a 2 is drawn though. You cut your cost in half because you have the same downside cost but now you get the upside on the original bet if the dealer busts.

Of course there are other considerations than just the math on scavenger plays, but I thought the math on this one was interesting.

[FalseCount]

Explaining all these terms in the moment is difficult in my experience.
Action usually happens so fast and dealers instantly respond to player signals. Ploppy doesn't double and simply asks for a hit and the ship has sailed. Any ideas on how to handle this better?

[bjarg]

Explaining all these terms in the moment is difficult in my experience.
Action usually happens so fast and dealers instantly respond to player signals. Ploppy doesn't double and simply asks for a hit and the ship has sailed. Any ideas on how to handle this better?

once you incorporate scavenging as a part of your play youll learn to develop ways to take advantage of those opportunities and not lose them. Good scavengers not only seize opportunities that spontaneously present upon them, they actively look and scout for them, the same way a hole carder will scout for flashy dealers.

[JohnnyUtah]

Explaining all these terms in the moment is difficult in my experience.
Action usually happens so fast and dealers instantly respond to player signals. Ploppy doesn't double and simply asks for a hit and the ship has sailed. Any ideas on how to handle this better?

This topic has been covered in many threads (and publications) but I will give a short answer...

If you sit in Seat 1 the action doesn't start until you play your hand. If you see a 10 v 2 (your example above) and the Player is known to you to not take advantage of good doubles and you want to double down, ask the Player if he is going to double. I usually already cut the chips out and have them ready to go when I ask. The action on that hand won't happen until you play your own and the ship can't sail. Once arrangements have been set, not set or the player is still deciding, go ahead and play your hand. When the dealer gets to Player, he tends to slow down and wait to see if he'll double, use your double, or just hit.

Again, this has been discussed in other threads, but you should be cautious about scavenging... possible outcomes include:
1) Player uses your money to double and if he wins he gives you back 2X your money (bet and win)
2) Player uses your money to double and if he wins he only gives you back your bet money and not the win
3) Player uses your money to double and if he wins he keeps both your bet and the win as a gift
4) Player loses, claims he wouldve hit again and flips out and refuses to ever allow you to double his hand

It's your job to make sure the deal is in place, terms are clear and judge whether the Player will follow through with them. Usually something along the lines of "Hey, I'll double that and if we win I get my bet and the win... Ok?" works and if they're confused say "No matter what you're not going to want to hit again... so I'll double and take the risk for you."

Eventually players might go ahead and offer to let you double or take half the double. I played with a random Player betting green chips and was getting low (he had inadequate bankroll management this session... but also terrible luck). He only had a few green left and had a $50 bet and a good double. I offered to take half. We won the first few doubles he had, then from that point forward he always offered me half (out of superstition) even as he started winning a lot of money (even 10/11 vs 5/6). I easily made $300-500 just on taking half of his doubles alone (we lost just once... it was awesome).

[White Guy]

Scavenging is a good way to draw attention to yourself.

Also, you would be surprised how many players suddenly no inglay when its time to pay you your money back plus the win. Just like in the movie casino, You're "dealing with degenerate animals out Here." Don't forget it. Haha.

Buying mis surrendered hands has less room for "misinterpretation."

You give them half their bet, its your hand at that point. You can also get some pretty high edges, you would be surprised what hands can give you > 10% or even 20%.

[JohnnyUtah]

Search the forum for other threads on this topic, such as this one: http://www.blackjacktheforum.com/sho...ght=scavenging

[JohnnyUtah]

As far as your question goes regarding a Blackjack and offering the player even money if you get the 3:2 payout... I've never seen that play and I think that would be a definite Red Flag in terms of card counting. Offering doubles is very common among regular players and perfectly acceptable--offering to pay even money to get a 3:2 payout on a BJ is very uncommon and highly suspicious. Maybe if the player had a huge bet and you were willing to leave the casino immediately after that, win or lose, it might be ok... I wouldn't recommend this play, though. Just my humble opinion.