The reality of H17

[KJ]

I am not totally on board with the anti-h17 sentiment. I felt that way a few years ago when I first encountered h17, but lately I have come to realize that casinos that still offer s17, protect those games by offering lousy penetration. Better penetration can easily overcome the disadvantage of h17. I have seen games in the very same pit, 6 deck s17, 2+ decks cut off vs 6 deck, h17, a deck and quarter to a deck cut off. Also they are more likely to offer surrender on a h17 game. Surrender is big to a counter. The bigger the spread the more advantageous it is. In a sense we are both winning. The casino is getting the bigger advantage that they desire from the public and I am getting deeper penetration and a bigger winrate.

[Anton Chigurh]

Surrender is big to a counter ... The casino is getting the bigger advantage that they desire from the public and I am getting deeper penetration and a bigger winrate.

Well put.

From the perspective of casino management, H17 + higher penetration + late surrender are all good: H17 takes money from over 99% of their patrons; the penetration allows them to flog the ploppies even harder between shuffles; and the vast majority of patrons will use surrender to hurt themselves even more, not even surrendering 17 against A.

That a sliver of their customer base will profit from two of these three parameters means nothing in comparison to the increased haul from all three choices.

[Aslan]

I am not totally on board with the anti-h17 sentiment. I felt that way a few years ago when I first encountered h17, but lately I have come to realize that casinos that still offer s17, protect those games by offering lousy penetration. Better penetration can easily overcome the disadvantage of h17. I have seen games in the very same pit, 6 deck s17, 2+ decks cut off vs 6 deck, h17, a deck and quarter to a deck cut off. Also they are more likely to offer surrender on a h17 game. Surrender is big to a counter. The bigger the spread the more advantageous it is. In a sense we are both winning. The casino is getting the bigger advantage that they desire from the public and I am getting deeper penetration and a bigger winrate.

I couldn't agree more. Rules are not a sole criteria for rating a game. Penetration is the game maker. If you can have both, great! there is a saying that charity covers a multitude of sins. So also, good penetration covers a multitude of poor game rules. [Up to a point]

[ZenMaster_Flash]

About 1/2 deck extra pen makes up for the H17 rule. If I remember the sims right that is for both RoR and EV.

Yes, Tthree is fully correct. Less experienced players are advised to learn the slightly differing Basic Strategy and a handful of adjusted playing indices.