Yes, it is against the law to allow them to purchase or participate when they are not of legal age. This is not up for debate. If they are of legal age, it is either not against the law to fail to ID check (effectively subjective, no age appearance requirment), or the law is not enforced (effectively objective, age appearance requirement).Originally Posted by Tthree
So if they are going to play and you don't card them to determine they are underage and refuse access you have broken the law. You cut a fine line to argue with everyone. You must be a lawyer.
I was not trying to argue with you, dude. I guess it just blossomed into one. I am no fool when it comes to legalities, although I do not practice law. What you are describing would probably not be of the subjective/objective variety that had been the previous topic, is sounds more like a totality of the circumstances type issue. If a kid slips by a busy guard and plays for 5 minutes, then security has probably not broken the law. If a kid cartwheels by a sleeping guard and plays for 8 hours, then security probably has broken the law. And whether or not the casino had enough security and competent security is another issue. In open-type casinos like the ones you appear to describe, if you want a clear cut answer--then no, I do not think it is automatically against the law if a kid suddenly starts playing. But these laws, in my opinion, are not ones enforced, at least not heavily, because casinos do not want minors as customers. On the other hand, tobacco companies do.
The possibility of someone under age slipping by security are very good.
Security is not considered the guilty party the casino is and fined anywhere from 30 to 100 k per violation.
If Gaming Enforcement catches the person playing any table game or slot machine the fine is enforced. Even for a second.
One nickel in a 5c slot is a violation.
I would think that most dealers are also trained as I was to card anyone who looked or smelled like they were not 21.
Beware the fury of a patient man.
That goes double for Southeast Asian patrons who may be 40 and look like they are 17.
Not only are Casinos regularly fined large sums for such violations, but there are cases
of the parents of minors suing casinos for the loss of funds, granting of credit, serving drinks, etc.
Why do you think a security guard or 2 are at every casino entrance and every dealer and pit boss asks younger looking players for ID.
For the slow on uptake some guards are standing arms crossed next to a sign about how you must be 21 to ENTER the casino. One spin of a slot machine with a credit left on it is all it takes. Bam the casino just lost 30 to 100K.
If security sees an 8 year old doubling down on 11, and decides to let the kid play rather than ask for ID, they are breaking the law. This is because the casino is required to ID...the casino hired security to meet that requirement. The casino is not necessarily breaking the law, but maybe they are if they could have known foreseen the incompetence. The casino is analagous to the tobacco company in my description. They are very likely not liable if a kid manages to spin the reels once, so long as every reasonable effort was made to prevent it. With your black-and-white thinking, it can lead to the conclusion a terrorist could blow a hole in the roof of the casino, machine-gun all the security, parachute in a bunch of jihad children to play any operational slots, and then watch and laugh as the government fines the casino.
Look Rainmaker the Arguer. Casinos will be fined ghastly amounts per incident if someone under age gambles. How it happened doesn't matter. If they could reasonably be aware doesn't matter. The commission fines them no matter what if the commission becomes aware of it. Because of this every employee on the casino floor has the job of making sure it doesn't happen. Waitresses card them not to see if they are old enough to drink but to see if they are underage gamblers. If you think the casino believes they are going to win enough off these people to cover the $30,000 to $100,000 fine PER OCCURENCE you are crazy. That is the issue here. The casino is never without culpability and never can be.
How does the commission become aware of it when the casino is not aware of it and has taken every reasonable step to avoid it? A sting operation? I looked up a stat. For the particular area talked about, 11 fines were issued for 29.000 incidents. The article I found googling sounded legit enough. Less than 1/3 of 1% sounds on par with my hypothesis that the casino is usually not liable when they do everything possible to prevent it. "if the casino thinks they will win enough to cover the fine"...I have already stated the casino does not want underage people gambling. Waitresses card to see if they are old enough to gamble? What? Then why does the waitress at the local bar card people?
Last edited by Rainmaker; 10-17-2013 at 12:20 PM.
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