Just got finished reading the wizard of Vegas thread starting on page 36. It sounds like they are freerolling out of towners without prior play records and either backing them off after they win or revoking their card once they get to a 10k loss and players with prior ploppy records there are ok. This one could get interesting.
You are comparing $75,000 lose to 10 card lose of $10,000 each which is not an equal comparison. Using the same example you are comparing with a single card and you have $100,000. Since the rebate is up to $100,000 for one card. Suppose at $90,000 you hit a jackpot using a single card. Jackpot is independent of how many card you use. The rebate of $90,000 for the single card will still be rebatable along with you jackpot that you win which is still equal to $90,000 rebate plus 15,000 Jackpot and $10,000.Originally Posted by RollingStoned
I think his point is that you can theoretically claim $90,000 in losses (get $90,000 in slot play back) while only net being down $75,000.
If on one card I have $90,000 in losses plus a $15,000 jackpot on the same card, the casino sees a net loss of $75,000. Therefore, they only give $75,000 worth of slot play back to me. However, if I have $90,000 in losses over 9 cards and a $15,000 jackpot on the 10th card, the casino will give me $90,000 worth of slot play (assuming they aren't able to connect the cards together). On the other hand, this is for sure against the rules they have set out and you risk getting burned (which it seems like people did) for doing it.
Are you sure that is how the casino register the loses in a single card? Because they can claim the rebate immediately after they have a lose. As it stated "For example, if you lose $125, you get $6.25 back on your card each week for the next five months." If lose $500 in slots of course I will claim the rebate right away. If they let me do that I could claim the $500 rebate. Then go back and play another $500 (assuming the previous rebate claim is not associated with the current rebate). Adding up to a total rebate of $1000.
^ This is what I was saying.
I'm pretty sure a $90K loss and a $15K win is viewed as a $75K loss.
Say you had 100,000 cards (theoretically), and you play $1 on each card. If it loses, you get that $1 back (rebate). If you win, it isn't counted against your losses because it's on a separate card.
If the casino was dumb enough to consider your losses as how much money you have ever lost (ie: Lose $10, win $2, they count that as losing $10, not losing $8)......then it would take the tiniest bankroll ever to get a great edge on this promo....and I'm pretty sure the casino is not THAT dumb.
I'm not saying that this is "legal" or that you won't get burned or teammates/partners won't jip you, as that's part of the game. Plus, I'm sure you can legally bankroll 10 or 20 people to play for you (although at a risk of getting jipped). Point is, it's better to use more cards than to put all the play on a single card, due to the fact that (if using multiple cards) the player doesn't have to continue playing after hitting a jackpot on a single card, but can spread to other cards.
"Everyone wants to be rich, but nobody wants to work for it." -Ryan Howard [The Office]
Rolling, I understood that. Now you have 75k divided by 90k, 83% that you have to get back plus 10 players expenses just to break even, on high volatility games with crappy paytables it is unlikely but possible you still lose. Now the opposite scenario we are ignoring is if you're playing alone and hit your 20k jackpot immediately, pretty sweet if your playing alone but not so much divided by 10 players minus expenses. Playing more players on an equal bankroll will greatly increase your chance of winning, but in equal proportion decrease the average amount of the win. Not necessarily desirable in a loss rebate scenario, and your expenses would likely be higher due to decreased variance making it take longer to get your result either way. The longer average time it takes and expenses of ten players will eat up that theoretical 15k that is a potential but not likely scenario, ignoring the risk involved with blatant violation of the promo rules.
Last edited by mcallister3200; 07-04-2013 at 07:36 PM.
Probably going to take a long time for a group of players to fall significantly ahead or behind in a short period of time, is why i say your scenario is unlikely without crippling expenses. And if you meant 10 different people having cards and one person playing them through, seems like a dream world unicorns and centaurs world that would work even without the shenanigans they are allegedly pulling. I've rambled far too much, perhaps we can agree to disagree. I have kinda enjoyed it though.
Volatility is your friend for this. Reducing Volatility reduces your EV. You want a big jackpot or a big loss. You don't want anything in between. Players are getting disqualified by trying to manufacture losses by various method that have been around for ages. I don't think these tricks should be discussed openly here. Play $100 slots. You will either hit a big jackpot or lose $100K very quickly. The less coin-in that it takes for you to get one or the other the higher your EV will be.
Don't forget to account for the new bad paytables on VP, if the best game is now 98% then your 100K loss rebate is worth only $98,000, and that reduces your EV by $2,000. Playing off the freeplay has no other bearing on the worth of this promotion except that you need to make 10 trips to cash the 20 coupons (you should be able to do 2 coupons per trip).
Last edited by bigplayer; 07-04-2013 at 08:50 PM.
Sounds like Revell is doing a great job of getting this bonus to the people it intended and busting the folks who only intended to abuse it.
Let me die in my sleep like my Grandfather.
Not screaming in agony like his passengers.
Perhaps. Sounds like some non ap players are getting caught up in it as well but there's lots of speculation flying. However they are getting negative pub from what was supposed to be positive. Could have been avoided by reducing the rebate to something in the 10 k range prior to it starting. It sounds like they are targeting anyone trying to throw any substantial money at them. Most ap or non local players wouldn't have targeted due to having to make 10 or more trips to collect. It appears the quick buck from freerolling players is worth more than the potential negative pub to them though.
Last edited by mcallister3200; 07-05-2013 at 10:20 AM.
I was over at the Las Vegas Advisor site this morning and was surprised there wasn't a thread about it over there. I haven't seen any bad press about it anywhere except a couple of AP sites.
Let me die in my sleep like my Grandfather.
Not screaming in agony like his passengers.
Posting Permissions
-*-
Reply With Quote
Bookmarks