zoomie: Ratholing chips

[zoomie]

I've asked here before about interpreting the PCs' whispering something to the dealer whenever I sit down at my favorite casino. It stopped for awhile, then happened again recently. The floor mgr whispers to the first dealer, then I move to see what he will do, and eventually the same guy whispers melodramatically to the second dealer. She nods, looks at me. Then she does nothing. Does not cut thick. Does not shuffle up when I raise my bet.

I'm thinking maybe he was actually complaining about me ratholing chips, which I certainly do, esp when winning. Ian Andersen recommends it. Norm argues against it. What do you think? Is there any consensus beyond, "If you do it, do it win or lose," which makes the most sense to me?

[JoshAxelrad]

> I'm thinking maybe he was actually complaining about
> me ratholing chips, which I certainly do, esp when
> winning. Ian Andersen recommends it. Norm argues
> against it. What do you think? Is there any consensus
> beyond, "If you do it, do it win or lose,"
> which makes the most sense to me?

personally haven't played with longevity as a primary goal, so i haven't tried ratholing. it sounds like if you are doing it in such a way that the pit is aware of it, the purpose is defeated, and suspicion heightened rather than reduced.

josh axelrad (rich)

[Parker]

The whole reason for ratholing chips is so the casino shows you as a lifetime loser rather than a winner. If they show you as a long term winner, an eventual backoff is inevitable

So, if the casino is aware that you are ratholing, it pretty much defeats the purpose.

With modern surveillance it is just about impossible to rathole hi-denom chips (black & above), and it is pretty difficult as well to rathole suffficient quantities of green chips to make a significant difference in your cumulative win.

I agree with Norm. The questionable benefit is not worth the hassle.

[Fred Renzey]

> I'm thinking maybe he was actually complaining about
> me ratholing chips, which I certainly do, esp when
> winning. What do you think? Is there any consensus
> beyond, "If you do it, do it win or lose,"?

snip -- Many AP's play in the same local place over and over, possibly for as many as 1000 times. You cannot keep your welcome mat out if showing a net cummulative win over an extended period of visits. Like it or not, I'm thoroughly convinced you have to rathole chips. Pocket the most commonly used denomination at your table, and do it every session whether winning or losing.

The average player loses about 1.5% of his total action. If your EV is say, 1%, then pocket 2.5% of your total action every single session and just let the wins and losses take care of themselves in their own natural pattern. Don't take too much off of one table, which is another reason to play at many tables, and never rathole while playing heads up.

Don't rathole if you notice that the PC has instructed the dealer to pay and collect from you out of your own personal chip tube. Any amount you walk with will be missed and known to be yours.

[Brick]

I agree,may I add when losing all your chips dont pull the ratty ones out,just buy in for more. Be a CHUMP.

[kewljason]

I have encountered a player being paid out of a seperate chip tube or slot. I have never even heard of such. Must be a high roller precaution. Does this happen often? I would think if playing with a couple other players this would bring the game to a crawl and be difficult on the dealer. I also would think if things progressed to this point you have worn out your welcome at this particular place.

[Fred Renzey]

> I have never encountered a player being paid out of a
> seperate chip tube or slot. I think if
> things progressed to this point you have worn out your
> welcome at this particular place.

snip: You could be right. One never knows. Everything always seems like it's going along hunky-dory -- right up until the lightening bolt strikes.

[zoomie]

Thank you, Fred and Brick. I agree.