buddha: Best Seat Position in 6D shoe

[buddha]

A question that I've had for awhile: In a 6-deck shoe which is the best seat for a counter at which to play, 1st or 3rd base? I've never understood why 3rd base is where counters can be found. I understand that you get to see more cards before making your playing decision but is this so important in a shoe game? In a shoe game, PE is not nearly as important as BC. Therefore, it seems to me that you would want to get your cards as soon after placing your bet as possible (i.e., 1st base). That way, your cards are more closely associated with your "bet count". If you sit at 3rd, the count is more likely to be different than when you placed your bet (more cards have been dealt by the time your hand is completed at 3rd base). I believe Griffin dealt with this issue but it may have been for the basic strategy player. Any help would be appreciated.

[Fred Renzey]

> In a 6-deck shoe, which is the best seat for a counter at which to play, 1st or 3rd base? It seems to me that you would want to get your cards as soon after placing your bet as possible (i.e., 1st base). That way, your cards are more closely associated with your "bet count".

snip> Suppose you're sitting in a seven-handed shoe game and you're at first base. The count has just reached an astounding +12 true. You're not a slug-tracker or a card sequencer, just a straight counter. So you make your maximum bet and anxiously await the 1st and 9th cards out of the shuffled shoe. But just before dealing, the dealer pulls the cards out of the shoe face-down -- and reverses their entire order! What is the likely true count value of the cards you'll now be receiving?

[Parker]

> A question that I've had for awhile: In a 6-deck shoe
> which is the best seat for a counter at which to play,
> 1st or 3rd base? I've never understood why 3rd base is
> where counters can be found. I understand that you get
> to see more cards before making your playing decision
> but is this so important in a shoe game? In a shoe
> game, PE is not nearly as important as BC. Therefore,
> it seems to me that you would want to get your cards
> as soon after placing your bet as possible (i.e., 1st
> base). That way, your cards are more closely
> associated with your "bet count". If you sit
> at 3rd, the count is more likely to be different than
> when you placed your bet (more cards have been dealt
> by the time your hand is completed at 3rd base). I
> believe Griffin dealt with this issue but it may have
> been for the basic strategy player. Any help would be
> appreciated.

What Fred's example illustrates is this: Card counting provides the counter with information regarding the ratio of high cards to low cards in the remainder of the shoe. Card counting does not provide any information about the exact order of the undealt cards.

In other words, from the standpoint of betting correlation, it makes no difference at all where the player is seated.

There is a small gain in playing efficiency from sitting at third base, but as you correctly surmise, this gain is quite insignificant in a shoe game.

[OldCootFromVA]

Sit where you can see all the cards and the discard pile with minimum head/eye movement.

[Gorgon]

> Sit where you can see all the cards and the discard
> pile with minimum head/eye movement.

Why not just back count and forget about it?

[Sun Runner]

> Why not just back count and forget about it?

Sometimes you can't, or don't want to for other reasons.

[buddha]

> Sometimes you can't, or don't want to for other
> reasons.

Even with backcounting, the issue of where to sit still comes into play. Afterall, you have to wong-in sometime. I'm just curious why it should be that seat position has no effect on betting correlation yet it has some effect on playing efficiency.

[Parker]

> Even with backcounting, the issue of where to sit
> still comes into play. Afterall, you have to wong-in
> sometime. I'm just curious why it should be that seat
> position has no effect on betting correlation yet it
> has some effect on playing efficiency.

At third base, you will see more cards before being required to make your playing decision.

Regardless of where you are sitting, you must make your betting decision before any cards are dealt.

[rick666]

> At third base, you will see more cards before being
> required to make your playing decision.

> Regardless of where you are sitting, you must make
> your betting decision before any cards are dealt.
the position of the seat is not important; only the count is important; if you are counting the best seat is the seat where you can have a global view of all the cards whithout moving your head; for me seat one or two are the best

[Sun Runner]

> the position of the seat is not important; only the count is important

Parker's response to buddha is correct, if not important. The seat you choose will effect your PE, however so slightly.

But I am with you in that with the reduced and rounded matrix I use, I try to sit where I can see and look like everyone else. I do try to avoid third base. Don't know if the pit still considers that the counters seat but why risk it.