I need help desperately

[Goatlife]

Thank you for taking the time and reading my post. I have spent the last three months learning to count cards. I have logged over 500 hours of and brought all of the software and training possible. I practice every day afterwork till i go to bed. I love it. With that being said my bank roll is not that large 33k. I want to have a 5% ROR. I took a trip out to vegas for a conference i had to attend for work and I figured i would try it when I was out there. First 10 hours wents down about 4500 and next 10 hours went up 7k for a 3500 profit. I only played double deck s17 das because the ror was lower on that game for my bank. I basically bet .6-.75 kelly. I GOT BACKED OFF 5 PLACEES!!!!!!!!! I think my name my already be shot but i hope not. So i told myself that I would learn to use cover and really study and read up on how to camoflouge as I did not use any camo whatsoever (my bets in vegas was min bet tc 1 <50, tc2 125, tc 3 2x150, tc 4 2x200, tc 5x250, tc 6x300).

WHAT DO I DO!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I really want to continue counting but i don't know how im going to last. I want to try ac because there are more casinos and i can go ever weekend there. I know the house rules are works but the i could prob get my bankroll up to support 100 dollars min game. I don't want to try this till I get some on advice on how to last at this game. Please help. I don't want to stop.

By the way , I made 8500 in my first week of card counting. ( I know this is about 7-8 about expectation)

[WRX]

You want help? The first thing that you should get through your head is that counting as a part timer, tied to your home a long drive from any major gambling destination, your are NOT going to be able to make big money at this. It's fine as a diversion, but I don't see how you'll be able to get in the hours needed to have an expectation higher than a small supplement to your major source of income.

Either get in a frame of mind where you stop talking like an addict, or give this up entirely. Seriously.

I would consider a $33,000 bankroll to be adequate, barely. But betting 75 % of Kelly, it's going to be a wild ride. You MUST resize your bets if you take a major hit, or you'll have a high risk of ruin. I'm not motivated to look up any figures right now, but without resizing, I think that your risk of ruin will be far, far, higher than 5 %.

There are pros who make their money by finding the rare casino that doesn't object to a nice spread, and that lets them play day after day, week after week. So they bomb away until the casino runs out of patience and finally gives them the boot. But there aren't many places like that. In most casinos, you're going to have to keep your appearances short and not too frequent. Otherwise, you'll quickly wear out your welcome.

Again, maybe others can give you more detailed and precise information, but the spread you were using in Pennsylvania on the double deck game was inadequate to make you a winner. Particularly knowing how penetration has deteriorated there. So now you see the nature of the problem. Even with such a polite spread, and even with a ploppy history, they'll soon enough back you off.

As for your Las Vegas trip--WHAT WERE YOU THINKING? You gave them all your NAME? And read up. The double deck games are the heatiest in Las Vegas by far.

If you go to a destination with only one or two casinos, it's rare that you can get in much play without getting immediately heated up. If you go to one of the handful of destinations with numerous casinos with playable games, you should be able to last through your trip by playing anonymously, short sessions, not returning to the same shift at the same casino.

[Ouchez]

Small,

I have to agree you are talking like an addict, maybe the back-off's were a good thing if that is the case.

I have to disagree with all the talk about you not making money with your bank, playing time etc, etc.,,,,you can make money. As I have said before there are many ways to beat the game, you just have to figure that out for yourself. You sound like you have already become a skilled counter, now you need SKILLZ and a brain to start thinking for yourself,,,not that you do not have a brain, sounds as if you have a very fine brain.

Greed killz and back-off's kill. Sadly you have probably already done yourself considerable harm.

My best,
Ouchez.

[Goatlife]

I appreciate everyones advice especially about the addict comments, seriously. I know people are just trying to look out with is very much appreciated. I just have an all or nothing personality which has made me very successful in business and i guess i adopted that same additute with card counting. So if you guys where me what would you do going forward, Add more money to the bank and hit up the AC games since there rules are not that favorable and you will need a higher bank for the same win rate and ROR I am used to playing this last week?

If someone with experience can point me in the right direction it would be greatly appreciated. Any good books to ready about cover and casino tolerance?

I am only looking to do this on the weekend as my job has the potential to make a good amount of annutized money and a very felixable schedule. I just really like counting and would like to still be able to do this.

[Marvin]

If someone with experience can point me in the right direction it would be greatly appreciated. Any good books to ready about cover and casino tolerance?

Burning the Tables in Las Vegas by Ian Andersen.
Card Counter's Guide to Casino Surveillance by Cellini.

[Goatlife]

i actually ordered burning the tables in las vegas....... ill start with that and take a break till i add more to the bank and learn to play a little more undercover

[PonyPrincess]

With that spread playing good DD in vegas you'll get backed off for sure if you stay more than 2hrs on a decent shift.

[WRX]

Ouchez, I was speaking of counting, period. 'Nuff said.

Andersen's cover advice really applies only to high stakes players, and even then it's controversial. For red and green chip players, his cover package is just too expensive. Certainly in today's games that have a relatively high basic strategy house edge. And I'm confident that what gives counters away 99 % of the time is not strategy variations, but the bet spread, which is something you can't easily disguise. The best cover is not to show up at the same casino on the same shift too often, and not to make yourself too conspicuous when you do.

[bigplayer]

Backoffs are part of the game. Some places in Vegas are very quick with the hook. IF you got backed off at five places playing double deck and they were places like Gold Coast or Palace Station (just guessing) I would not worry about it, but the players card for the name that was backed off is now dirty. Your spread was not too big, it was just right. You should work on your act, keep your sessions to 30 to 45 minutes (small to big bet cycles) and play unrated and just spread your play around town. Vegas is an untolerant sweaty toilet for blackjack, you're better off just playing unrated short sessions and keep on moving around.

[Goatlife]

any advice on where to read up on how to get an act? Should I obtain a fake Players card with a novelty ID or is that considered illegal?

[BJGenius007]

You get backed off for several reasons; you spread too much or to too high a bet, .

Yap. The original spread is even too high for shoe game. There is no way any casino would let you play at that kind of spread on DD.

For green chippers, you can only spread 18 t0 1 on shoe game ($450 to $25) and 7 to 1 on DD in LARGE Strip casinos. The spread should be even lower in smaller casinos. Or better, not to play at smaller casinos at all because they are less tolerant of APs. More accurately, they pay more attention to black chip AP.

[Goatlife]

Yap. The original spread is even too high for shoe game. There is no way any casino would let you play at that kind of spread on DD.

For green chippers, you can only spread 18 t0 1 on shoe game ($450 to $25) and 7 to 1 on DD in LARGE Strip casinos. The spread should be even lower in smaller casinos. Or better, not to play at smaller casinos at all because they are less tolerant of APs. More accurately, they pay more attention to black chip AP.

This is the exact advice what i was looking for. Do you guys reccommend getting a novelity id so i don't give my real idenity away anymore. I trying playing unrated but it draws even more heat. Anyway i could sit down at a table and the pc comes up and asks me if i have a card and I tell him i don't have one. He will then ask me if I want to get rated and I say sure and give him a fake name because i tell him i dont have any id on me, can't he just make a players card with that information? I have a job that If i get arrested for anything illegal it could really put a damper on my career.

[Goatlife]

I just found 6 casino within an hour an a half drive from my house. the rules are 6d's das s17 LS.

I think what is getting me notcied is spreading to two hands when the count gets high so i was messing around with cvcx and i found i can make about 90 dollars and hour playing 2 hands considentily with out spreading with an ror of about 5.9% which im comfortable with. Here it is:

count
0 or less 2x25
1 2x50
2 2x100
3 2x150
4 or higher 2x250

can i get away with this spread? its only 10 to 1 on a shoe game

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