OldCootFromVA: Designing/defining a ploppy

[Parker]

The term "ploppy" is often misused, at least in the sense that it was originally intended. It is much more than simply an unskilled player, and it is most definitely an insult.

The term was coined by gambling author Frank Scoblete in his book, Best Blackjack. He wrote, in part:

"To set the record straight, a ploppy is a moron with an attitude. A ploppy is a fool. A ploppy usually looks like what he or she usually is -- something even a cat would think twice about dragging in. Ploppys come in all shapes and sizes (often quite strange actually) and, while most of them have low IQ's, some could be bright in a technical way.

"I have met ploppy doctors, ploppy lawyers, ploppy teachers, ploppy politicians, ploppy book reviewers. But generally speaking, the ploppy population is at the lower end of the bell curve of intelligence, often at the lower end of this same curve in manners, comportment, fashion, and hygiene. Ploppys usually travel alone but when they travel in mated pairs they are a sight to behold and a scent to smell. No one reading this book is a ploppy because by definition, ploppys don't read books about blackjack. They have their own strategies."

Unfortunately, as the term has come into wide use, it has often been misused to refer to anyone who is not an advantage player, or at least a strong basic strategy player. As can be seen, this is incorrect, and does a disservice to those whose only fault is not knowing how to play blackjack.

Personally, I always liked James Grosjean's habit of referring to all non-AP's at the table as "civilians," regardless of skill level. I don't know if he originated the use of the term in this context, but he was the first person that I heard use it.

I also like "nebs," as in "Negative Expectation Bettors," but this has never really caught on.

[Parker]

The problem is that many, if not most, unskilled players (not really "ploppies" - see my post elsewhere in this thread) do not play a consistent strategy.

They may stand on a few stiff hands, note that small cards came out, and then start hitting them (or vice versa).

They may stand on stiffs because "the dealer is busting a lot today." Once the dealer makes a few 5 or 6 card 21's, they change their strategy.

Then there are those who base their playing decisions on "the flow of the cards," whatever that means. If the dealer is making a lot of hands, they may suddenly start playing differently in order to "change the flow."

A common superstition is that the dealer is more likely to make a hand if no one at the table takes a card. A player who believes this will often hit a hand on which he would otherwise stand, if no one else has taken a hit. When it works out, he will take credit for "saving the table."

[Bettie]

I don't know who or what prompted Scoblete to come up with this description, but I'm insulted by it and it doesn't even apply to me!

I personally use the term "ploppy" to describe anyone who "plops" themselves down at a table without attempting to make any effort at learning the proper strategy, or even deciding that they don't care about/need to know proper strategy even after reading some books (usually crap from John May, Thomason, etc.), regardless of the game (I actually saw a woman hold a single "high" card in a FPDW VP game once!). This includes just about everyone in the casino, I know, but I only use it on my bad days; otherwise, everyone's a "civilian."

A "moron with an attitude" as defined by Scoblete here is just strange. He cares more about their physical appearance and hygiene than anything else, and physical characteristics should not play any part in this definition, I don't care who started the use of the word!

I personally know more than one physical "ploppy" (scent and all) who would kick Scoblete's ass in the mental department any day, as well as a couple dozen "metrosexuals" who fit the rest of the definition as it should only be applied ? intellectually in regard to the game.

Regardless of how Scoblete defined it, he has no right to compare someone's mental agility with the way they look or smell or behave (manners). That, in my book, makes Scoblete a "moron with an attitude" himself, and he ain't nothing to look at either, my friend! I think we need to co-opt the word away from a meaning that has no bearing on the way a person plays.

What an ass!

Bettie
(Starting the day with a little self-righteous indignation never hurt anybody!)

[OldCootFromVA]

> The problem is that many, if not most, unskilled
> players...do not play a consistent strategy.

I've been gravitating toward the same opinion.

There are some things I think I'll have my simmed "ploppy" to ALL the time: Stand all 15s, 16s & 99s and stand 88 vs 9-A.

To introduce a bit of randomness/"inconsistency" to it, I'm thinking about:

1) standing soft 17 if the dealer's DOWN card is odd; and
2) never doubling and never hitting a stiff which should be hit if the dealer's down card is even.

N.B., in my software, all face cards count as 10; so 8/13ths of the cards are "even" and only 5/13ths are odd.

Do most of you out there think I've defined a pretty good model, or is there something specific you would change/add/delete?

[ToAnyOne]

If the players play badly in a random sense, then we already know that his play will not affect our outcome, therefore I see no sense in simming this.
OTOH, we know that card eating in high counts, or conserving cards in low counts is bad.
Just how bad, is what I would like to know? ... "Mimic the dealer" and "never bust" are the two extremes that could be used to gauge the potential "threat" of a bad player at our table.
The most important point that I would like to stress is that bad plays do not affect us equally, so we specifically need to set NON-random parametres in order to compare and evaluate the different types of scenarios and see if we could find real life applicability.

TAO

[Coug Fan]

> While I see your point, I don't agree. This would tend
> to even out over, say, 100,000,000 rounds. Besides, if
> we're going to go to all this trouble, we might as
> well be as accurate (read: representative) as
> possible.

I agree that you will see some minimal impact from card eating, but I have always considered the card eating impact to be different from what people are referring to when they say that the play of others has an impact on them.

While you are at it, can you sim the impact of people who take FOREVER to play a freaking hand. That is the only thing that players do that irritates me. Well, that and asking for my advice, and commenting on my wins, losses, luck, BJ skill, lack thereof...... On second thought just about everything that other players do irritates me. No wonder I'm willing to purposely give bad advice.

[Jay]

Lots of good replies already. To tell the truth, I normally ignore other players' non-BS moves. I never really considered looking for plays that they make more often than others. Splitting 10s in low counts is probably the only one I can name offhand.

I have been chastised for making basic strategy plays on many occasions, and have watched my share of bonehead moves (one guy split 3s against a 3, then proceeded to bust out both hands).

One of the recurring things I have heard is "the 2 is the dealer's ace". Huh? But what plays do the ploppies make based on that? I really don't recall.

I'm heading to Vegas Sunday for 5 nights of wild abandon, so I will keep an eye out and make some notes. I'll let you know what I notice. Thanks for a new thing to track during play (like I needed another LOL). Wish me luck and positive EV.

Jay

[Sun Runner]

>> The term "ploppy" is often misused, at least
>> in the sense that it was originally intended. -Parker

Many things have evolved from their original intention; just ask Don about SCORE. It's original intention is really non-existent.

A agree Bettie's ploppy definition is more the norm today.

> This includes just
> about everyone in the casino, I know, but I only use
> it on my bad days; otherwise, everyone's a
> "civilian." -Bettie

Bettie, what do you understand the 'civilian' term to mean?

> A "moron with an attitude" as defined by Scoblete here is just strange.

Morons with an attitude or braniacs with an attitude .. not much difference in my book.

Both are asses. Mean people suck.

[Victoria]

The 2 is the dealer ace. This is a mainstay of blackjack superstition and misinformation. It belongs with the mystical flow and the belief that someone must take a hit each hand when the dealer has a stiff.
I have seen players not double 10 or 11 against a 2 and not split against it. The same players, of course, would never hit their 12 against a 2.

Victoria