toddler: Don - Score Values for 1D Games

[toddler]

Don,

Don't have you're book in front of me. Was wondering if you could provide SCORE values for the following games:

1D, S17, D10, 50% pen
1D, S17, D10, LS, 50% pen

I believe the first game is between 62.57 and 80.18 and the second game greater than 80.18. Thanks much.

toddler

[Don Schlesinger]

> Don,

> Don't have you're book in front of me. Was wondering
> if you could provide SCORE values for the following
> games:

> 1D, S17, D10, 50% pen
> 1D, S17, D10, LS, 50% pen

These games (strange combinations of rules!) are not in BJA3. Just go to bjstats, at qfit.com, and plug in your conditions (you didn't stipulate spreads).

Don

[toddler]

Thanks, Don.

I believe a typical spread on 1D is 1-4, at least when discussing SCORE. Although, a madman friend was spreading 1-16 one morning. As far as the games, you've got to love S17 1D games, especially with LS. If I've done everything correctly, which is at times suspect, these games can be beaten with a 1-2 spread.

toddler

[Parker]

> Thanks, Don.

> I believe a typical spread on 1D is 1-4, at least when
> discussing SCORE. Although, a madman friend was
> spreading 1-16 one morning. As far as the games,
> you've got to love S17 1D games, especially with LS.
> If I've done everything correctly, which is at times
> suspect, these games can be beaten with a 1-2 spread.

I'm not so sure. The D10 is really costly. Wong's BJEdge shows an off-the-top house edge of .23, which is higher than the usual .18 single deck game (H17, DA2, NDAS, NS). A 1-2 spread may technically give a positive expectation, but the EV will likely be pretty small.

Disclaimer: I haven't actually simmed it.

[toddler]

...the EV will likely be pretty small

Agree with the 1-2 spread. EV and SCORE is very low.

Although, LS does make a nice difference with SCORE values. The SCORE of an S17,D10,1D,50%pen,1-4 spread,Hi-Lo is 51.88. Add LS to the mix, now you have 73.38. *IF* you can get away with a 1-6 spread, now the SCORE is over 100. Using AOII, the numbers are slightly better.

toddler

[Don Schlesinger]

And, you're actually finding a traditional 3:2 SD game with LS somewhere? Or, this is an academic exercise? :-)

Don

[toddler]

Don,

The game does exist. 1D,3:2,S17,D10,LS,50% pen. Under the right conditions, you can occasionally get DAS for a short period of time, a larger spread than 1-4 and some decks dealt deeply... all with little pit scrutiny. The SCORE is very high under these fluxuating conditions. Wish I could say more.

The intellectual exercise involves an analysis (read: SCORE) of all games in a certain region of the country under different count systems. It's eye-opening when you start looking at certain locales where you've been told great games exist, then you analyze those games and discover you may be wasting your time. Naturally, reported vs. actual conditions will vary which causes unplayable games to become worthwhile.

toddler

[Don Schlesinger]

> Don,

> The game does exist. 1D,3:2,S17,D10,LS,50% pen. Under
> the right conditions, you can occasionally get DAS for
> a short period of time, a larger spread than 1-4 and
> some decks dealt deeply... all with little pit
> scrutiny. The SCORE is very high under these
> fluxuating conditions. Wish I could say more.

You don't need to say any more! And, I don't need a simulator to realize how spectacular such a SCORE would be.

Go get 'em, and good luck!

Don

[I_like_S17]

Would 1D, 3:2, H17, DA2, 75% pen be a better game than toddler describes? Does LS and S17 negate DA2 and the pen on my game?

> You don't need to say any more! And, I don't need a
> simulator to realize how spectacular such a SCORE
> would be.

> Go get 'em, and good luck!

> Don

[toddler]

> Would 1D, 3:2, H17, DA2, 75% pen be a better game than
> toddler describes? Does LS and S17 negate DA2 and the
> pen on my game?

Here?s a close comparison between these two games. These numbers come from bjstats.com.

1D, S17, LS, 50% pen, 1-4 Spread, Hi-Lo Full Indicies with D10 ? SCORE: 73.38
1D, S17, LS, 60% pen, 1-4 Spread, Hi-Lo Full Indicies with D10 ? SCORE: 122.09
1D, H17, 75% pen, 1-4 Spread, Hi-Lo, I18/Fab4 ? SCORE: 137.80

Similar games but with a two level count and an ace side count:

1D, S17, LS, 50% pen, 1-4 Spread, AOII with Ace Side Count ? SCORE: 91.75
1D, S17, LS, 60% pen, 1-4 Spread, AOII with Ace Side Count ? SCORE: 178.14
1D, H17, 75%,1-4, AOII with Ace Side Count ? SCORE: 240.81 (Note: EV: 2.16, N0 : 4148)

I like S17 as well as LS, but I?ll take the 75% pen everyday.

toddler

[Don Schlesinger]

penetration, penetration, and penetration! :-)

Rules are great, but there simply is no comparison, especially for SD, when talking about 75% vs. 50% pen.

Don