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Thread: jay: Blackjack tips for pro counters and why they wont win from counting alone

  1. #27
    Jay
    Guest

    Jay: Re: Uston essentially obsolete?

    Alright Parker, I wont argue with you about how strong my game was. Can I ask you a question? Is that you who SLAMMED the book BJA on Amazon.com in 2001? Theres a review posted by a guy named Parker from San Diego, which was posted in 01. Now you know why I havent read BJA. Too many negative reviews on Amazon.com.

    Jay

  2. #28
    Jay
    Guest

    Jay: Re: I would Like to Respond to Your Comments

    > Definitely not easy. But, anything worthwhile isn't
    > EASY.

    > I think you need to talk to a few players. One's I've
    > talked to that "ONLY" count and played for a
    > lot longer than your two-year period, have told me
    > point-blank, they have won and have the spreadsheets
    > to prove it! Have they had long periods of not
    > winning, sure...but if you're the "Math
    > Expert" you claim to be, you should be fully
    > aware of variance and know that the losing comes with
    > the winning. It doesn't matter what you've done on
    > your last session, trip, or even YEAR...look over a
    > ten-year period, go back and SEE if you're winning. If
    > you're playing winnable games and your skills have
    > been honed properly, you can't do nothing BUT win!
    > Math is math and it doesn't change, surely you
    > understand that?

    > Is that right? For a player that calls himself a
    > "Pro" and has lived off of blackjack for two
    > solid years, I sure would like to find out where
    > you've been playing to where you can't find a DD game
    > that has pen beyond one deck. I can take you to MANY
    > games that give 70% and MORE! One game deals down to
    > about 10 cards! How can you say what you're saying?

    > I normally don't play shoes, but I have seen and
    > played games that have dealt 5 out of 6. If you need
    > more pen than that to win, perhaps you need more
    > PRACTICE!

    > I agree that you must be mentally optimistic about
    > your results, but be truthful, how many times have you
    > sit down at a table "knowing" you were gonna
    > clean their clock only to be enlightened? Math is math
    > and the cards don't know what kind of attitude you
    > have and could care less. Variance takes over no
    > matter how "POSITIVE" you are.

    > I do believe that negativity leads the mind to make
    > plays and decisions we shouldn't that definitely hurts
    > our game, but a positive attitude alone won't change
    > your results if Mother Flux rears her ugly head.

    > btw, welcome to the site.

    > PM

    Ok PM. You got DD games in Las Vegas that deal down to 10 cards, ok. That sounds so ridiculous that I just wont comment on that. Do you. I'll do me. Have a good one.

    Jay

  3. #29
    Parker
    Guest

    Parker: Answer

    > Alright Parker, I wont argue with you about how strong
    > my game was. Can I ask you a question? Is that you who
    > SLAMMED the book BJA on Amazon.com in 2001? Theres a
    > review posted by a guy named Parker from San Diego,
    > which was posted in 01. Now you know why I havent read
    > BJA. Too many negative reviews on Amazon.com.

    The problem with Amazon is that any idiot can post a review - or a whole bunch of reviews. With his outspoken views and uncompromising attitude, Don has made a few enemies over the years. These wackos use any means that they can to discredit him - including impersonating me.

    Read the book and decide for yourself.

  4. #30
    Parker
    Guest

    Parker: Ahem

    I can assure you that such games do indeed exist, although you certainly won't find them at every casino.

    We try to keep it polite around here. Your sarcasm is uncalled for.

  5. #31
    Jay
    Guest

    Jay: Re: Answer

    > The problem with Amazon is that any idiot can post a
    > review - or a whole bunch of reviews. With his
    > outspoken views and uncompromising attitude, Don has
    > made a few enemies over the years. These wackos use
    > any means that they can to discredit him - including
    > impersonating me.

    > Read the book and decide for yourself.

    Ok. I ordered it.
    Thanks.
    Jay

  6. #32
    Don Schlesinger
    Guest

    Don Schlesinger: Naive, I'm afraid

    > Alright Parker, I wont argue with you about how strong
    > my game was. Can I ask you a question? Is that you who
    > SLAMMED the book BJA on Amazon.com in 2001?

    No, it's a troll who was simply looking to cause trouble for Parker. I guess you don't understand how these reviews work. You get a couple of malcontents who have nothing better to do with their time, and they cause mischief on the sites by writing rogue reviews.

    If you'd like to know about BJA, it isn't on amazon that you will find out. Surely, you can think of other places to look for reviews. Why not start on some of the reputable BJ sites, or the GBC, in Las Vegas, or Huntington Press, etc.?

    > Now you know why I havent read
    > BJA. Too many negative reviews on Amazon.com.

    Maybe I can help even out the score a little bit: :-)

    What the Experts Said About the First Edition of Blackjack Attack:

    ?Blackjack Attack is a valuable resource for serious blackjack players. It represents the distilled wisdom of twenty-five years from a master teacher and player.? ? Edward O. Thorp, author of Beat the Dealer

    ?My prediction is that it will become the major book in blackjack ? the one book everyone simply must have.? ? Stanford Wong, author of Professional Blackjack

    ?[Schlesinger?s] understanding of the game would outrank that of almost every published expert.? ? Peter Griffin, author of The Theory of Blackjack

    ?[Schlesinger] has answered most of the important questions that the other authors have left behind.? ? Arnold Snyder, Blackjack Forum

    ?Every few years a great, must-have, blackjack book is published. This is one of those books.? ? George C., author of Advanced Card Counting

    ?Of all the blackjack books ever written, I think Blackjack Attack is the most useful.? ? Ian Andersen, author of Burning the Tables in Las Vegas

    ?The best teacher of statistics and probability for me over the years I?ve been involved in blackjack and casino gambling is Donald Schlesinger. [He] should feel good about the excitement [his] book has generated amongst players. ? Henry Tamburin, author of Blackjack: Take the Money and Run

    ?Schlesinger joins the ranks of Peter Griffin, Stanford Wong, and a handful of other authors who have cracked the so-called ?inner circle? of blackjack superstars.? ? Howard Schwartz, Gambler?s Book Club

    ?If you want to know what is really important to becoming a winning player you need to read and study this material. Schlesinger has successfully answered many of the toughest questions about this game and has made some major discoveries along the way.? ? Michael Dalton, Blackjack Review

    ?Get this book; you won?t be sorry.? ? Bryce Carlson, author of Blackjack for Blood

    Who Is
    Don Schlesinger?
    ?Don Schlesinger is recognized as one of the foremost experts in blackjack.?
    ? Ralph Stricker, author of the Silver Fox Blackjack System

    ?Schlesinger is, in my opinion, one of the most knowledgeable blackjack players in the
    world. He has perhaps the finest perspective on the game today.?
    ? George C., author of Advanced Card Counting

    ?I?ve come to the conclusion that ?Don Schlesinger? cannot possibly be one person. It
    must be a trade name, like ?Mr. Goodwrench.? The so-called Don Schlesinger has been
    making too many insightful contributions for too long for it to be just one person.?
    ? ?Dunbar,? well-known player and member of the Internet blackjack community

    ?Don Schlesinger is not only as knowledgeable as any human could expect to be, he?s
    a terrific writer as well.?
    ? ?Grimy Fellow,? player

    ?Don S. [is] the best overall blackjack authority.?
    ? ?DD?,? noted blackjack and team-play authority

    ?Don Schlesinger is the best blackjack expert right now. He knows more about the
    game intuitively than most know by experimentation.?
    ? Tom Turcich, author of Vegas on a Chip
    ?His writing is clear, his mathematics are sound, and his insights are eminently
    worthwhile. Schlesinger cements his reputation as a master teacher of the game.?
    ? Nick Christenson, on jetcafe.org

    Praise for
    Blackjack Attack
    First and Second Editions

    ?Every few years a great, must-have, blackjack book is published. This is one of those
    books. Don?s intelligent and eloquent writing style alone is worth the price.?
    ? George C., author of Advanced Card Counting

    ?If you want to know what is really important to become a winning player, you need
    to read and study this material. Schlesinger has successfully answered many of the
    toughest questions about this game and has made some major discoveries along the
    way. Blackjack Attack is one of the best blackjack books that have ever been published!
    Outstanding. Highly recommended.?
    ? Michael Dalton, Blackjack Review

    ?Everybody assumes that Blackjack Attack is going to be recognized as a classic, and
    I share that opinion of the book.?
    ? Stanford Wong, author of Professional Blackjack

    ?The best teacher of statistics and probability for me over the years I?ve been involved
    in blackjack and casino gambling is Donald Schlesinger. [He] should feel good about
    the excitement [his] book has generated amongst players.?
    ? Henry Tamburin, author of Blackjack: Take the Money and Run

    ?In Blackjack Attack, Don Schlesinger writes about virtually everything that is important
    in the game of blackjack for a card counter. No matter how much experience he has, a
    counter can learn from this book.?
    ? Stuart Perry, author of Blackjack Diary

    ?Get this book; you won?t be sorry.?
    ? Bryce Carlson, author of Blackjack for Blood

    ?Schlesinger joins the ranks of Peter Griffin, Stanford Wong, and a handful of other
    authors who have cracked the so-called ?inner circle? of blackjack superstars.?
    ? Howard Schwartz, Gambler?s Book Club

    ?Blackjack Attack is one of the best blackjack books to hit the bookshelves in the last
    35 years.?
    ? Eddie Olsen, editor of Blackjack Confidential magazine

    ?Blackjack Attack is not a book, it?s the Bible. I say that because it is the only book
    besides the Bible that I?ve read over and over and over. It?s one of the greatest blackjack
    books ever written. Trust me, you?ll be taken aback. It?s like that commercial: ?Don?t
    leave home without it.??
    ? ?Hollywood,? high-stakes player

    ?It gives me great pleasure to announce the publication of the best modern book on
    blackjack. Period! This is offered with no hesitation on my part. Blackjack Attack
    is the pinnacle, the cream of knowledge spawned in this incredibly imaginative time.
    More than just a summary or potpourri of the experiences of others, Schlesinger has
    linked arms with the ranks of his mentors, joining them in the pantheon of the great
    blackjack mathematicians and probability experts. He has crafted the final word. I
    say this because after reading the new edition of his book, I can?t imagine what there
    is left to say concerning the game of blackjack. I will tell you that if you can?t find the
    answer to your questions and prayers concerning blackjack amidst the myriad charts,
    chapters, and tables, I can?t help you. Don Schlesinger has truly written the final word
    on the game of blackjack as we know it. Blackjack Attack is a book for the ages, one
    that serious students of the game will be referring to in years hence. I can?t give it a
    higher recommendation.?
    ? Peter Ruchman, former manager of the Gambler?s Book Club

    ?A masterful presentation of the latest research for every player. If Stanford Wong?s
    Professional Blackjack is considered the blackjack bible, then Don Schlesinger?s
    Blackjack Attack is the New Testament.?
    ? Jake Smallwood, noted blackjack authority

    ?Blackjack Attack is one of the few must-have books on the game. This book is one of
    the elite. The prose is perfect, the content incontestable, the mathematics magnificent.
    There is no other work that addresses these topics with the same insight, clarity, and
    ease of comprehension. It is certainly required reading for the serious player of all
    levels.?
    ? ?anon,? well-known player and member of the Internet
    blackjack community

    ?No other blackjack book contains more valuable information and tips on how to beat
    the game. If you could have only one book about blackjack, Blackjack Attack would
    be it. The information in it has made me more money than any of the other 20-odd
    blackjack books I own. Thank you, Don, for your wonderful book.?
    ? ?SOTSOG,? well-known player and member of the Internet blackjack community

    ?The book is too damn good!?
    ? ?Scarce,? player

    Third Edition
    ?The more I use BJA3 the more I?m impressed by it.?
    ? Ed Thorp, author of Beat the Dealer

    ?With more than 100 new pages (the last edition was published in 2000), Schlesinger?s
    work moves to the top of the ?best-bet/must-read? list for serious players.?
    ? Howard Schwartz, Gambler?s Book Club

    ?It really is a wonderful book, Don. It?s great to have a readable, in-depth mathematical
    resource such as Blackjack Attack right there any time I need it. There is just nothing
    else out there like it.?
    ? Bryce Carlson, author of Blackjack for Blood

    ?I received my brand-new Blackjack Attack yesterday, and all I can say is WOW WOW
    WOW! This is mandatory reading for any real-deal BJ players. Don, I can?t tell you
    how impressed I am. For all the math people, they should make this a mandatory text
    for students. For all the non-math people (like myself), who are not greedy and want
    only to pick up an extra couple of 100 thousand a year (!), all I can say is: ?Go buy the
    damn book.??
    ? ?Hollywood,? high-stakes player

    ?It looks like a classic!?
    ? Hal Jordan, developer of Blackjack 6?7?8

    ?The new charts are fantastic, the basic strategy charts by Cacarulo are amazing, ... the
    presentation is excellent. All in all, I love the book.?
    ? ?AdvantageRay,? on advantageplayer.com

    ?First I would like to say thanks for the great book. I?m new to [advantage play] and
    this book really is one of a kind! It has lots of insights that other books do not provide.
    Thanks again!
    ? Michael Y., e-mail correspondence


  7. #33
    HC
    Guest

    HC: Discussion topics on advanced techniques

    Is this a norm for people not to discuss anything (other advanced techniques such as tracking, apart from pure counting and conditions and stuff) on the net? I am sure in the world of blackjack there is much more to share just counting, pennetration and heat.

  8. #34
    Praying Mantis
    Guest

    Praying Mantis: Vegas and DD Games

    > Ok PM. You got DD games in Las Vegas that deal down to
    > 10 cards, ok. That sounds so ridiculous that I just
    > wont comment on that. Do you. I'll do me. Have a good
    > one.

    Seems like you don't want to comment on the rest of my post, as well? Why is that?

    Did I say that specific game that dealt to 10 cards was IN Las Vegas? My point is that you're making statements that are invalid. You say that there are no playable games for straight counting any more, I beg to differ.

    Another thing to look at. With more and more casinos coming about, there will be even MORE games and although many will NOT be playable, many, many, WILL.

    If you scout enough, you can find many DD games worth playing in many casinos, including Vegas.

    As a full-time player, it strikes me as odd that you seem to limit your play to Vegas alone. Most Pros will play anywhere they can find an edge and some of the best games are NOT in Vegas.

    Regards,

    PM

  9. #35
    fatcat519
    Guest

    fatcat519: Re: Naive, I'm afraid

    > No, it's a troll who was simply looking to cause
    > trouble for Parker. I guess you don't understand how
    > these reviews work. You get a couple of malcontents
    > who have nothing better to do with their time, and
    > they cause mischief on the sites by writing rogue
    > reviews.

    I've read the reviews of BJA on Amazon, and my impression was not so much that the writers were malcontents as that they were probably quite new to blackjack and didn't understand that the book is not meant for beginners. They didn't want to be told that there is more to the game than basic strategy, and possibly a simple count system.
    (Maybe I'm naive in usually thinking the best of people's motives?)
    Anyway, BJA is a great book, and I own both 2nd and 3rd editions.

  10. #36
    Jay
    Guest

    Jay: Re: Vegas and DD Games

    Well PM, I happened to have lived in Vegas. Since I specialized in Single and Double Deck blackjack. I stayed in Vegas because they usually have the best single and double deck games available in the country. Penetration is not good enough for me to be interested in spreading my bets anymore.. why? because nowadays my goal is to win nice amounts consistently and limit my losses and keeping them as small as possible. If I'm spreading from 1-4(SD) and 1-8 (DD)like I used to and I'm losing.. my losses are much larger. Nowadays, I'll flat bet a single deck, or a shoe with a high betting unit ($100-$500) and quit while I'm ahead with a fair win for the day. Then do it again the next day. I like it like this better because I dont get heat due to the no bet spread. If I do lose, I'll quit and just try again. Most important for me is going back to the tables with a relaxed, optimistic and strong mind. Again, PM. My opinion is that Penetration is weak. Sure counters can still play and attempt to make things happen, but my opinion penetration is weak. I have a big tendency to win even in negative counts. This strategy works for me so I'll stick with it. Also, I went to Reno and the games are TRASH. I found a good SD game for a while, but it didnt last. Seriously the games in Reno are WORST than Vegas. Go to Vegas and then Reno and find out for yourself. I'm not interested in traveling all over to find awesome games. Another reason why I like Vegas is because I like the women. I'm interested in 2 things- a)Money b)beautiful women. Vegas suits me well. With my blackjack strategy now, I'm doing fine. I also play other casino games as well such as Craps and Roulette. Roulette I bet black or red.. Craps I like place bets only on my roll. I do what works for me. Keep doing what works for you. Thanks for your comments.

    Jay

  11. #37
    Parker
    Guest

    Parker: Re: Vegas and DD Games

    > Well PM, I happened to have lived in Vegas. Since I
    > specialized in Single and Double Deck blackjack. I
    > stayed in Vegas because they usually have the best
    > single and double deck games available in the country.

    They have the most games available. This is not the same as having the best games.

    > Penetration is not good enough for me to be interested
    > in spreading my bets anymore.. why? because nowadays
    > my goal is to win nice amounts consistently and limit
    > my losses and keeping them as small as possible. If
    > I'm spreading from 1-4(SD) and 1-8 (DD)like I used to
    > and I'm losing.. my losses are much larger.

    And when you're winning . . . your wins are much larger.

    > Nowadays,
    > I'll flat bet a single deck, or a shoe with a high
    > betting unit ($100-$500) and quit while I'm ahead with
    > a fair win for the day. Then do it again the next day.
    > I like it like this better because I dont get heat due
    > to the no bet spread. If I do lose, I'll quit and just
    > try again.

    Care to enlighten us as to how you get an edge while flat-betting?

    > Most important for me is going back to the
    > tables with a relaxed, optimistic and strong mind.

    Attitude is certainly important. However, all the positive energy in the world is not going to turn a negative expectation into a positive one. Again, just how do you gain an edge while playing in this manner?

    > Again, PM. My opinion is that Penetration is weak.
    > Sure counters can still play and attempt to make
    > things happen, but my opinion penetration is weak. I
    > have a big tendency to win even in negative counts.
    > This strategy works for me so I'll stick with it.

    You must realize that your personal results are meaningless. Your sample size is too small and variance is too large.

    > Also, I went to Reno and the games are TRASH. I found
    > a good SD game for a while, but it didnt last.
    > Seriously the games in Reno are WORST than Vegas. Go
    > to Vegas and then Reno and find out for yourself.

    I play both on a regular basis. While conditions in Reno have deteriorated over the past few years, there are still some excellent games to be found, if you know where to look.

    Tell me something. While you were playing Reno (and, I assume, spreading 1-4 on the single deck games), did you experience any heat/back-offs?

    > I'm
    > not interested in traveling all over to find awesome
    > games.

    Why not? I thought you were a "pro?"

    > Another reason why I like Vegas is because I
    > like the women. I'm interested in 2 things- a)Money
    > b)beautiful women. Vegas suits me well. With my
    > blackjack strategy now, I'm doing fine. I also play
    > other casino games as well such as Craps and Roulette.
    > Roulette I bet black or red.. Craps I like place bets
    > only on my roll. I do what works for me. Keep doing
    > what works for you. Thanks for your comments.

    Sounds to me like you've become Just Another Gambler.

    Or, you've been making all of this up all along.

  12. #38
    Don Schlesinger
    Guest

    Don Schlesinger: Re: Naive, I'm afraid

    > I've read the reviews of BJA on Amazon, and my
    > impression was not so much that the writers were
    > malcontents as that they were probably quite new to
    > blackjack and didn't understand that the book is not
    > meant for beginners. They didn't want to be told that
    > there is more to the game than basic strategy, and
    > possibly a simple count system.

    No, that simply isn't the case. These reviews are bogus.

    > (Maybe I'm naive in usually thinking the best of
    > people's motives?)

    That's a nice quality, but, in this case, it leads to erroneous conclusions.

    > Anyway, BJA is a great book, and I own both 2nd and
    > 3rd editions.

    Thank you.

    Don

  13. #39
    Jay
    Guest

    Jay: Re: Vegas and DD Games

    Yes they do have the most games available, correct. And in my experience and from taking other real pro's advice, the games with the best rules. If there is a good game, believe me its inconsistent. Meaning, some days good, most days not good. Again, thats coming from someone who has played daily for 2 yrs straight.

    Thats correct when you win, wins are much larger when you spread. But as you know, when you lose, losses are larger. In my attempt to keep losses small and wins small in order to keep a long playing life, thats what I do.

    Absolutely right, mathematically I get no edge. But I play to make money, and to lose as little as possible. I do it because it makes me cash, it minimizes the negative swing, and it maintains my bankroll.

    I believe you can get an edge by playing in a relaxed, focused, warrior mind manner. I have done it, others have. People who win alot and rarely lose have. Its called "The Mental Edge". Which casinos just cant stop or bar. They cant bar you because your mentally stronger than they are. But they can bar you from spreading your bets according to a counting system.

    If my personal results are meaningless and help no one. Hey at least I tried. Hey, 99% of counters are losing. Believe me. Casinos are raking it in big, way big. And counters just arent winning like "the old days". Thats why alot of the great counters arent playing professionally anymore. They sell books, they write articles, they do this, they do that. Proof is all there. I'm trying to help people WIN and keep winning, while minimizing negative swings. It may or may not work for them. I still thought I'd like to share my experiences and knowledge with extremely hardworking people who wanna tap into some major cash.

    When I played in Reno, I got stares.. The pit watched me from time to time. I"ve never been backed off. But then again, I've never won big money in Reno.. I'm not greedy. Since I can live in these gambling destinations, the strategy is to extract money from these guys slow and steady. Greed gets you backed off.

    I'm not interested in looking for awesome games because its just too much work for me. Time is money, and I'd rather be spending time making money.. then searching for a golden nugget. If I happen to come across a awesome game, I'll kill it.. just like I did when I occasionally came across one in Vegas.

    "Sounds to me like you've become Just Another Gambler."
    Nah, I'm a winning professional speculator. I do well in a variety of speculations.

    Jay

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