VerdugoJohn: Prof Ed Thorp of Beat the Dealer

[VerdugoJohn]

The History Channel is airing the program described below...folks who have read the book might be interested...

PROFESSOR BLACKJACK (airing Tuesday, March 8th at 9:00 p.m. ET/PT)

In 1961, when Las Vegas was under heavy mafia influence, a young MIT math professor devised a revolutionary and completely legal card-counting scheme that had the potential to make him a fortune. A mob slickster approached the young professor and the two forged a partnership that would change the casino industry forever.

[Lightning]

I saw it and it was a nice historical perspective. It?s been a long time since I read ?Beat the Dealer?, but one thing seemed incorrect in the show. The show seemed to imply Dr. Thorp was using a point count on his first Nevada trip, whereas I thought he stated in his book that he used his ten count system on that trip. I recommend watching it in one of the other showings this week.

[VerdugoJohn]

You are right...he used 10 count per the book, and also Mr Y., who was part of the Reno trip, was not mentioned.

Other minor point, I saw once instance of the dealer checking for a natural by looking at a reflector glass in the table...I thought dealers would have peeked under the cards in 1961. Also, I don't know if casinos used bicycle backed cards, I thought they have always used diamonds.

I enjoyed the show.

I think Ed Thorp did the right thing by publishing his findings, and thus making legit his research...Computers were owned only by large corps, universities and the government back then, and putting that resource to personal gain would have showed a lack of character and an abuse of position. Fortunately, Dr. Thorp has academic ethics and we are all grateful to for his contribution.

[Don Schlesinger]

> I saw it and it was a nice historical
> perspective. It?s been a long time since I
> read ?Beat the Dealer?, but one thing seemed
> incorrect in the show. The show seemed to
> imply Dr. Thorp was using a point count on
> his first Nevada trip, whereas I thought he
> stated in his book that he used his ten
> count system on that trip. I recommend
> watching it in one of the other showings
> this week.

I wrote to Ed about this last night. I don't think he would mind if I shared his reply to me on our board. Think of it as a special "bonus" for ap.com readers!

Don

"Re the +- count: definitely a factual error. What actually happened was this: Shannon and I discussed the +- count in early 1961 as a simplification of the ultimate strategy, and I knew the idea of using the gradient to estimate the betting power of any counting system (vs. the ultimate, i.e. vs. the approximately correct effects of removal of individual cards). I elected to go with the Ten Count instead because, among other reasons (1) people seemed to believe it more easily--Kimmel in particular (2) in one or two deck BJ dealt deep, the difference in power seemed small (3) and people liked the fact that it was exact for insurance. With the rediscovery of the +- count(s) by Dubner, Einstein and others, and the wide use of multiple decks, the shift to the +- count was indicated."

[ES]

Who was Shannon?

[Dog Hand]

One other anachronism...

When "Thorp" buys in, he uses Series 2001 benji's, the ones with the big portrait of Franklin.

Dog Hand

[Don Schlesinger]

> One other anachronism...

> When "Thorp" buys in, he uses
> Series 2001 benji's, the ones with the big
> portrait of Franklin.

Right. I saw that. And, re the above, I doubt casinos used Bicycle cards then, and, of course, there were no readers.

Also, when Thorp played his first big hand, the guy to his left broke, and his cards were scooped up. Next thing we see, the dealer is breaking, saying "Everybody wins," and paying not only Thorp but the guy who broke, whose hand has been mysteriously resurrected. Bad job of editing.

Don

[Edward O. Thorp]

> Right. I saw that. And, re the above, I
> doubt casinos used Bicycle cards then, and,
> of course, there were no readers.

> Also, when Thorp played his first big hand,
> the guy to his left broke, and his cards
> were scooped up. Next thing we see, the
> dealer is breaking, saying "Everybody
> wins," and paying not only Thorp but
> the guy who broke, whose hand has been
> mysteriously resurrected. Bad job of
> editing.

> Don
They typically used cards with a uniform small diamond pattern and there were no borders. Perfect for second dealing, as it happens. The dealer looked at his hole card by bending up the corner--which led players to exploit "spooks" and "warps" and the eventual discontinuing of that dealer procedure.
--Ed

[Parker]

> They typically used cards with a uniform
> small diamond pattern and there were no
> borders. Perfect for second dealing, as it
> happens. The dealer looked at his hole card
> by bending up the corner--which led players
> to exploit "spooks" and
> "warps" and the eventual
> discontinuing of that dealer procedure.
> --Ed

Thanks for that information, and welcome to the Parker Pages. It is an honor to have you posting here.

[Francis Salmon]

I guess we all feel honoured by you finally posting here in person.I still remember this sequence about second dealing from your book as if I had read it yesterday.This book, a paperback version from 1966, has now completely fallen apart but it occupies still a place of honour in my library.
Your publication was at the origine of a process that allowed me to completely change my lifestyle.No more getting up at 6 in the morning and staying in the office 8 hours a day. I owe you also my handle: In your book you mentioned an early advantage player that you named "The Salmon".
So,many,many thanks!

Francis Salmon

[Count of Montecristo]

How incredible for us to be on the same board as you. We all owe you a great deal for the wealth of knowledge, information and money you have brought our way. I am truly humbled.

> They typically used cards with a uniform
> small diamond pattern and there were no
> borders. Perfect for second dealing, as it
> happens. The dealer looked at his hole card
> by bending up the corner--which led players
> to exploit "spooks" and
> "warps" and the eventual
> discontinuing of that dealer procedure.
> --Ed

[Sun Runner]

Not wanting to blaspheme this close to Easter .. I'll still say I thought I felt the 'veil rent in two' when I saw your post.

Thanks for the effort. We all owe a debt we can't repay.

[Shark]

for giving us the freedom. Freedom from bosses, employees and customers alike. Shark

> They typically used cards with a uniform
> small diamond pattern and there were no
> borders. Perfect for second dealing, as it
> happens. The dealer looked at his hole card
> by bending up the corner--which led players
> to exploit "spooks" and
> "warps" and the eventual
> discontinuing of that dealer procedure.
> --Ed